J. Purdey Rifle

[Catof9tails]

I have a Mom & Pop Gunsmith in my town and I found a used ML that I've never heard of before. Looks very old to me. It's "J. Purdey". The gunsmith said it is a .70 caliber. From what I saw, this gun was about 65-75% mint condition looking at the outside. The stock looked good for it's wear, with one good nick above the trigger. It has a damascus steel octagon barrel with the length of 32". It's a sidelock percussion with some unique rear sights. I'm not sure how to describe the rear sights, but they are a flip up, flip down for various yardage. The rear sights are actually three individual "V" style sights that flip up, or down depending on the yardage desired. Each rear flip sight had a yardage (or meters) stamped on it. The end sight or bead has a very fine point. The butt plate had a very sharp curve to it, with a sharper curve to the top. It had no brass, but all steel components.

The stamping on the barrel was labeled as:

J. Purdey 314 1/2 Oxford Street London

There was no other stamping that I could find. I have no clue what the rate of twist is or what year this rifle was made.

I ran an internet search on the rifle and found nothing but shotguns and a few ML made by Purdey & Sons, but no match of the rifle.

So does anyone know anything about this rifle? More details of maybe when it was made, rate of twist, quality, value, and other details?

Sorry the description is vague, but don't know exacly what I've found.

Cat9

 

[musketshooter]

I have seen a few rifles similar to yours. I believe they were made for the India trade. Primarily intended for dangerous game hunting. The workmanship is usually first class. These rifles are quite collectible and usually retail in the $1,000 price range.

 

You didn't mention the price, which is fine, but if it is in fact a Purdey in the condition you described, you can find provenance for it and it's less than a grand, I'd grab it. Anything Purdey is pricey, very pricey.

I believe the address on the barrel is correct for Purdey. Are there any markings on the lock and is it back action or bar action? There should be proof marks somewhere on the barrel, most likely underneath. Is the stock pinned or keyed? The sights are called "express sights" and are marked in yards and once the proper load is found are usually quite accurate at the ranges marked. Are the rear sights the shallow V of British double fame? The twist is most likely very slow and if the barrel is truly British damascus it is of the highest quality. After an examination of the barrel, if it is in good condition, I wouldn't be afraid to shoot it. I'm thinking 70 cal. equates to about 16 bore, perhaps a little larger.

During the era that rifle appears to have been made there were several makers on the continent who would build firearms and mark them with names very closely mimicing the famous British makers. Many of them were in Belgium and the arms they built were often of good quailty. To my knowledge none of them at that time were directly copying the name and address of the British makers. My knowledge is also very limited regarding continental makers.

Hopefully Squire Robin will weigh in with some "on the scene" information. I'd like to konw more about this rifle.

Vic

 

[Mulebrain]

I have been to their shop in London! What a place! They are one of the finest custom gun makers in the world. I was fortunate enough to get the grand tour, including the great room. It is like looking back in time. This room has changed little in hundreds of years. When you order a gun from them, it is presented to you in this room. All of their guns are made to fit each shooter!

 

[robinghewitt]

Hopefully Squire Robin will weigh in with some "on the scene" information. I'd like to konw more about this rifle.

I'm a bit vague on Purdey, he's more famous for cartridge shotguns than ML.

A copycat might put Purdey on a Flemish gun but certainly not J Purdey and his address. Don't let it get away, if you don't want it I'll have it ::

I can copy the Purdey entries out of Stockel if it helps, how's your German?

best regards

Squire Robin

 

[JohnTheGreek]

I'll take my place as third or fourth in line for this rifle if no one wants it.

 

[Boer]

Please post photos!

 

[Catof9tails]

The ML is on consignment and the gunsmith was not sure how much the guy wanted for it, but said he thought the owner would ask 1500-1700. I'll have to check on the pin/keyed barrel. I was so busy looking for stamping forgot to check. That's what I get for being in a hurry. I'm not a gun expert, but I think I graded the condition about right. I would feel very comfortable shooting that rifle. The V rear sights definately have a shallow groove. Smallest V groove I've seen in my lifetime.

I'll borrow a digital camera and should have pictures to post by Tuesday afternoon. Plus take my bore light with me.

Thanks, Cat9

 

[Catof9tails]

I don't know how to speak German. Once I post the photos maybe that will help you figure out more information on it.

Cat9

 

[Catof9tails]

trying to figure out how to send photos and not having much luck.
Cat9

 

[robinghewitt]

Send them to me and I'll put them up

[email protected]

 

[Catof9tails]

still trying.
http://photobucket.com/albums/a97/Catof9tails/

Hope that works if not I'll email them to ya Robin.

Cat9

 

[robinghewitt]

Somethings wrong. I should be slavering and trying to buy it but I'm not.

The guard looks good, very crisp and precise but a double set??? The folding leaf is good and so is the barrel. The lock plate is less good, the cock screw is unlikely, the cock is a bit ordinary, the wood grain doesn't look quite right, the butt hook seems out of place :hmm:

But I am no expert on Purdey so what do I know.

 

[Catof9tails]

If you look at where a modern clean out screw would be just in front of the hammer screw, you'll see a stainless steel or aluminum plug. Also from the top side (not sure it shows it in the picture) the breach also has that same type metal like it's been shimmed up. Both are very precise fit. Not knowing what year this is made and it looks old to me, but sure they didn't have those type of metals back in those days. It looks to me the rifle has been re-worked. Plus, I could not find any other stamping on any metal part. I would think there would be a manufacture number or year stamped on the rifle.

I'm one confused Cat. Something doesn't smell right to me. More thoughts?
Cat9

 

[matchlock]

Hi
The metal for the cleanout screw and brrech could possibly be platinum.It was widely used on expensive guns of the era from touch hole liners to what have you.

Jeff

 

[Zonie]

It seems to have a barlock, which I think would be correct, but I pictured something more in line with a British Sporting Rifle which I don't believe ever came with the deep hooked Butt plate this one has.
It just looks to American to me, but then what do I know?

I am under the impression that Purdy built all of his guns to the customers orders, and if his customer wanted a American style rifle, who am I to say he didn't deliver? ::

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I agree. The forearm and lock area look English, but the rest looks American--almost a classic plains rifle. Still, whoever made it, it is a lovely rifle.

 

[Catof9tails]

Thanks to everyone for your posts on the Purdey Rifle. I'm still learning this BP thing, but I've read all the comments and was able to understand the points of question of the rifles authenticity. It's great to read all the views on something like this. Your information is greatly appreciated.

In conclusion, I'm still not sure of what I've found. Guess this Old Cat won't pounce on this mouse at this point. I'll just linger for awhile and watch. At a later date and the right price, I might just buy the rifle. I know that everything looks tight fitting on it and looks well built.

Thanks again for your comments.

Cat9

"And the old cat trots down the alley."

 

Oh the speculation that gathers round this rifle. I agree with everyone else. I believe the lock is English. It is very similar to the Enlgish lock in the Track of the Wolf catalog and equally similar to other English rifles I've admired. Same goes for the forearm. Could a previous owner have broken the stock and taken it to a local gunsmith to have it restocked more along the lines of American plains rifles? I'd be tempted to pull the barrel and look for proof marks. Sure is an admirable piece.

Vic

 

[varsity07840]

I have to agree that there's something not right about the
stock. Way too much drop. The curved buttplate is odd. Check out Blackpowder Hunting Issues Summer 1995 and 1998.
Ross Seyfried's pieces about British sporting rifles have pictures of a Purdey which is also typical for British
Sporting rifles of that era. I have one By Westley Richards
that is very similar to his Purdey, in .635 cal. and a twist about 1/66. It has the typical straight stock comb, flat buttplate and tapered barrel. It also has the platinum vent. Some rifles, like Seyfried's Purdey had slow twist Forsythe rifling.