Heres a good October day with a Jackie Brown smoothbore.
Jackie Brown barrels ?????
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Heres a good October day with a Jackie Brown smoothbore.
O.K., I will agree with what others have said in that I would prefer a Colerain or GM Barrel over a "Plumbing" Barrel.
Also agree that if he in his statement implied that his Barrels are better than Colerain, GM, Rayl, etc that I don't believe that for a minute.
But with that said I am still not seeing any documentation of his Barrels not being safe even though it is Tubing and probably not of the Quality of some of the other Barrels.
I was aware of the cases of the India Guns but that is India, Could be a different Steel, a Different process, I don't know.
Good looking bunch of Tree Rats Leatherbark.
Also agree that if he in his statement implied that his Barrels are better than Colerain, GM, Rayl, etc that I don't believe that for a minute.
But with that said I am still not seeing any documentation of his Barrels not being safe even though it is Tubing and probably not of the Quality of some of the other Barrels.
I was aware of the cases of the India Guns but that is India, Could be a different Steel, a Different process, I don't know.
Good looking bunch of Tree Rats Leatherbark.
Black Hand
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Semantics.Rifleman1776 said:
You can attach whatever connotation you want to the term of your choice and it still ends up in the same place.
The question might be: WHY are they so much less costly than those from most other builders?
alex efremenko
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Here's one way to look at it. How Many people have actually been sued in court for a faulty "seamless barrel".I ask because i do not know.It seems[no pun intended]we would have heard about it i would think.
I'll now retire from this topic because It will never end to please anyone........................................
I'll now retire from this topic because It will never end to please anyone........................................
That is kinda the question I was asking Alex.
Is there any Court cases or other documentation to show these Tubing Barrels are unsafe?
On another note like I said before I am no Barrel expert, the Barrel I have on the JB Smoothbore I own has what appears to be 4 Seams or very shallow Grooves visible in the Barrel. I hear the term "Seamless" used with the Tubing Barrels.
So I assume that the Barrel I have is a Tubing Barrel so what is the deal with the 4 Seams or Grooves? Is that DOM as opposed to Seamless Tubing or what?
Is there any Court cases or other documentation to show these Tubing Barrels are unsafe?
On another note like I said before I am no Barrel expert, the Barrel I have on the JB Smoothbore I own has what appears to be 4 Seams or very shallow Grooves visible in the Barrel. I hear the term "Seamless" used with the Tubing Barrels.
So I assume that the Barrel I have is a Tubing Barrel so what is the deal with the 4 Seams or Grooves? Is that DOM as opposed to Seamless Tubing or what?
Flintfan69
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Black Hand said:
Because they already come bored to a particular size, and only need to be reamed/honed to finished size. They are not solid stock which needs to be gun drilled which is very time consuming to do. It's savings in time that equals lower cost, not the alloy or quality of the steel.
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Heres a seam in a jackie brown barrel
"Is there any Court cases or other documentation to show these Tubing Barrels are unsafe?'
Why don't all the foks who want to fall on their sword to defend them just shut up and use them and maybe you can someday offer the above legal examples.If you really really serious about having a decent gun the asthetics alone are reason to toss them in the trash can.
Why don't all the foks who want to fall on their sword to defend them just shut up and use them and maybe you can someday offer the above legal examples.If you really really serious about having a decent gun the asthetics alone are reason to toss them in the trash can.
STATEMENT 1Forrest said:
Because they already come bored to a particular size, and only need to be reamed/honed to finished size.
STATEMENT 2
They are not solid stock which needs to be gun drilled which is very time consuming to do. It's savings in time that equals lower cost, not the alloy or quality of the steel.
[/quote]I'm trying to juggle the two statements.
One says they are already bored...which means they had to be solid stock.
The other says they don't need to be bored because they're not solid stock.
We can't have it both ways...if they were bored, they had to be bored somewhere along the way and that boring cost has to be in the price.
:wink:
Anyhow, I thought the whole point of the concern of these tubes is that they aren't bored from solid steel stock at all...evidenced by the 'seam' indicating they were somehow welded / fused together from pieces or something.
ie: I assume a seam would not exist if they were bored from a solid piece of steel stock like the barrels from the manufacturers listed earlier...none of the couple dozen TC / GM / Rice barrels I've owned have ever had a seam in them.
:hmm:
Fwiw, I just had a close look at the barrel on my J.Brown gun and it has no seem. And while it is not the highest example of the gunmaker's art, it is quite decently put together with good inleting and overall fit and finish.
As to the fact that they are cheaper than higher end guns, to me that is a good thing because they allow the newbie like me to find out if this style of gun is to my liking without spending at least twice the price. If they were in any way dangerous, that would be one thing, but no one has been able to document any failures over the many years they have been out there in shooters hands
Of greater concern to me is why there are some posters here who can be counted on to be confrontational and make statements that are or insulting or nearly so to other contributors. Why is that? Wouldn't it be more fun to share our thoughts, expertise and experiences in a spirit of mutual respect and common courtesy? :idunno:
As to the fact that they are cheaper than higher end guns, to me that is a good thing because they allow the newbie like me to find out if this style of gun is to my liking without spending at least twice the price. If they were in any way dangerous, that would be one thing, but no one has been able to document any failures over the many years they have been out there in shooters hands
Of greater concern to me is why there are some posters here who can be counted on to be confrontational and make statements that are or insulting or nearly so to other contributors. Why is that? Wouldn't it be more fun to share our thoughts, expertise and experiences in a spirit of mutual respect and common courtesy? :idunno:
Flintfan69
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Yes, you are right. I should have said they already come with A bore near finished size formed around a mandrel, not that they have been bored in the conventional manner. I thought that would have been very obvious, but it is good to be clear for those that don't understand these things.
The purpose of pointing this out is because earlier it was discussed as to why tubing barrels are less expensive. It is because less work has to done to them to make them into a usable barrel, not because the particular alloy of steel is any less expensive or inferior.
The purpose of pointing this out is because earlier it was discussed as to why tubing barrels are less expensive. It is because less work has to done to them to make them into a usable barrel, not because the particular alloy of steel is any less expensive or inferior.
Many Klatch
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A buddy of mine had a .72 caliber JB gun with multiple straight grooves in the barrel. He is having it relined to .68 so he can shoot it at Friendship. That many grooves would be ruled straight rifling and it would not be allowed to compete as a smoothbore.
Many Klatch
Many Klatch
Forrest said:
Sorry, but no cigar, it not immediately obvious when someone makes a statement that is incorrect.
They are not "bored" at all...the are formed around a mandrel and welded.
I started a new thread with a link to one of many sites that make such welded tubing, which explains the process.
:v
I am not an expert on anything. I did support myself and family for 10 years as a welder. What I have a hard time understanding why people criticize DOM tubing. Original barrels were forge welded out of wrought iron. First off there was no way to determine the strength of the weld. There could be inclusions in the seam which would weaken the weld. Secondly every barrel was made with a "seam". and lastly you could not compare the strength of colonial period iron to today's steel. I would trust modern made DOM tubing over a newly forge welded wrought iron barrel any day. Just my 2 cents which probably ain't worth half that much. Bud
Flintfan69
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roundball said:
Yes I would have thought that it was obvious that the bore of DOM (i.e. Drawn Over Mandrel) tubing was not formed in the conventional manner such as by drilling, do to the very definition of it's name. My mistake. Sorry if it threw you or anyone else for a loop by saying they were bored (which forcing metal around a mandrel is a form of) instead of "they have a bore", that's why I corrected myself. Still hope it answered the main question I was trying to answer though, as to why DOM barrels are less expensive.
I did not keep mine lomg emough to see if a a1/2 turns of the liner was enough and the god awful oct section would make a serious gun owner puke safety is just a palce folks hide behind when ignoring all the other short comming, after sending three guns bacmk a decade ago and seeong so many complaints voiced I wonder why anyone would want one of these guns, he BS's about making known the barrel profile years ago unles there are some out there who werre not surposed to find the straight oct section when their gun arrived, let this die with the retirement of a omce good builder.
A piece of steel is a piece of steel until shaped into a barrel. How that piece of steel holds up under fire seems to be the main concern to this post. DOM tubing (drawn over mandrel) is close to how barrels were made years ago and are still being made for those wanting a real McCoy. The old gunsmiths took a flat piece of steel and beat it around a piece of round stock. Beat it into an octagonal shape and somewhere along the lines will "weld" the seam. Don't they still do this in Williamsburg?
I would not call 1020 carbon steel a hard steel that fails from a brittle standpoint easily. I too would be curious if any of DOM made barrels by JB have had a failure not caused by neglect. I don't own one, but I wouldn't be afraid to shoot one. As far as authenticity, well that horse has been rode hard and put away wet many a time. We all establish a boundary somewhere along the line (I won't get into vent liners on a poor boy).
I would not call 1020 carbon steel a hard steel that fails from a brittle standpoint easily. I too would be curious if any of DOM made barrels by JB have had a failure not caused by neglect. I don't own one, but I wouldn't be afraid to shoot one. As far as authenticity, well that horse has been rode hard and put away wet many a time. We all establish a boundary somewhere along the line (I won't get into vent liners on a poor boy).
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