Jackie Brown barrels ?????

[CoyoteJoe]

And exactly whom did I "attack"?
Sorry but I feel "I" was attacked and responded much more politely than my attacker.
If more than one person has a complaint does that constitute "ganging up"?
If the truth reflects badly on a gun maker is that the fault of the person who tells the truth?

 

[rabjr]

We need honest reviews. I know I would be pissed if I handed over money and found out about a few things afterward that I would have liked to have known before hand. Any builder producing shotty work deserves whats said about him and I for one want to know about it so I will never make the mistake to many have.

 

[tg]

This particular threasd deals with one source that has shown very poor buisness practices over a decade and this is not the rant of one unhappy buyer,but the culmination of many of which I have seen at least 15-20 put their complaints in various forums. I let things go years ago but after seeing that a promised change which delt with giving a customer the truth about some details did not take place, it is past due that folks are made fully aware of the potential for serious probelms, as for this style of gun being of a very comfortable architecture to shoot is not even a part of the equation, as mentioned if one is a die hard fan who does not believe the problems that are being shared I guess they can stick their heads in the sand if they do not care for the truth and not read this thread and more power to them if they happened to get a good gun over the years

 

[BEP]

tg, I agree completely. I just don't like to see a thread like this - which, like most, contains a lot of useful information - degenerate into name calling and insuts. I seriously doubt that these things would be said in the same fashion between forum members in a face to face situation. It's often benificial to disagree but rudeness is never a good thing.

 

[smoothy]

So back to the original post, something to do with dom tubing for barrels by Jackie Brown, why do you want to know? Questioning strength? Questioning aesthetics? Defamation? Just curious since this post seems to be dividing up between those that want to stay away from negativity and those that want to say what's wrong with the world. As entertaining as this post is, it has seemed to have derailed a while back and I'm trying to make sense of it all. So I'm trying to back it up to the initial request for information.

 

[shortbow]

I am in no way suggesting that folks should not be able to call a spade a spade. But there is a world of difference between what sometimes goes on here and civil debate and discourse.

There's never an excuse for bad manners.

 

[tg]

"
So back to the original post'

From what I have seen there are some who have vewry good credentials in engeniering and metalurgy who do not see some types of DOM as proper gun barrel material and others with the same background that see it as fine of barrels be it by JB or whoever some assume that a bulders reputation infers they would not use it if it were not good even though it is not an approved material for this use, overall it is all opinion at this point, untill some recognized authority sets a standard and passes the specific type of Dom as "good to go" all we will have is opinions, I do not claim to know my only concern is purely asthetic un till the DOM gets a "rubber stamp" from some body all will conceded as an authority on the matter all we will have is opinions going both ways, personaly in something like this I tend to lean toward the side which has the most experience and knowdedge in gunmaking/metalurgy along with a track record of high quality and customer relations, I am not sure that any thing even remotely questionable about a ML barrels servicability is worth trying to save a 100-200 bucks given the total cost of a top quality gun, people are going to have to choose on this one without much in the way of hard fact to go by.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am not sure that any thing even remotely questionable about a ML barrels servicability is worth trying to save a 100-200 bucks given the total cost of a top quality gun, people are going to have to choose on this one without much in the way of hard fact to go by.

I believe it likely that the majority of people buying JB guns have never even heard the terms "seamless tubing" or "DOM". Such was the case when I ordered my fowler from him. (still waiting, BTW) His prices were lower than others. I had seen and heard favorable reccomendations about him and his work. I expected a plainer gun with unremarkable wood for the lesser price. I picked out the lock and agreed on other parts. My thoughts about the barrel were "a barrel is a barrel". My thinking has changed. But, fact is, on this forum with all it's discussion, the negatives, so far, are only speculative. I belong to four others ML forums and have never seen a word about the DOM barrels being unsafe. Same with 'campfire' discussions over the years.
I am not discounting negative reports about his building and business practices discussed here or my very frustrating experience right now with him. The subject is his seamless tubing barrels. For all we know, there might be other builders using them as well. I don't see such a frenetic, overwrought bashing of those other builders. The thread-count sticklers seem to not care there doesn't appear to be any documented instances of the DOM barrels being proven to be dangerous. I think the jug has been passed too many times at this campfire.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'm inclined to agree. I have a Jack Garner 28 gauge (actually .56 caliber) smoothbore barrel on a T/C half-stock and am not at all worried about it, even though the seam down the bore is quite visible. Maybe because I've owned and shot lots of original percussion double shotguns. They were generally cheaply made Belgian guns which had seen a century of use and neglect before coming into my hands. If thousands of old forge welds don't scare me I'm not going to get too excited about a single seam welded with modern equipment.

 

[Rifleman1776]

For the record:
The barrel on my newly received Jackie Brown fowler is a 20 ga.
Inside mics at .620. Wall thickness is .165. (looks stout to me) There are no seams showing, inside is smooth and shiny bright.
I ordered a .36" barrel, received 31". :idunno:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Well, when all is said and done it looks like you did better than an Indian gun which sells for about the same price. Sad that this is the best one can say for a custom gun but it's something. :grin:

 

[Shine]

At least the indians don't brown the inside of the lock and can read a tape measure. You would think this guy learned something over the years. Like its the line with the number 36 on it and rust bad, shiney good. More than likely you got a left over section of pipe. Thats why no octagon and hardly any taper. Wedding band on the muzzle? hmmm suspect.

 

[Rifleman1776]

At least the indians don't brown the inside of the lock and can read a tape measure. You would think this guy learned something over the years. Like its the line with the number 36 on it and rust bad, shiney good. More than likely you got a left over section of pipe. Thats why no octagon and hardly any taper. Wedding band on the muzzle? hmmm suspect.

I've got a wedding band on my muzzle. :redface:
But, that's another story. :wink:

 

[Shine]

well so do i but I mean the one on your gun. :rotf:

 

[jbrowngunmaker]

I haven't been on this forum in a long time but a friend told me about the negative posts which I have read. All I will say about some of the complainers is, if I said you were bi-pedal and practicing heterosexual you would take serious offense.

Some of you use the cute camp names and I don't know who you are. Shine, I know you (BTW you never returned the "bad" barrel as promised), TG, yeah, Stebbins,I know you (been complaining for 10 years, Black Hand, I don't know you I reckon. Why are you griping? Let me know who you are (by private e-mail as I will not respond here) and we'll discuss your complaint. Coyote Joe, I don't know you but that gap under Darko's twisted triggerguard gets bigger as time goes on. I make mistakes but 3/16 inch under the guard, get real! Take any pics for us to see? Anyway, Darko's up front complaint was the guard wasn't inletted which I don't do on a Tulle. He insisted I pay him a ridiculous amount of money to have someone else (you) do the work. I refused and offered a full refund. He said no he liked the gun . Then the gap came to light so to speak.

You that I don't know with the camp names, e-mail me at [email protected] and tell me your complaint that hasn't been resolved. If you can't do that, then you have no real complaint and you're just a whining old woman.

You can repost here all you want, I will not respond. This will be my last post on here.
Jackie

 

[CoyoteJoe]

This is the reply I sent Jackie at his email address.
"Hi Jackie, I'm CoyoteJoe from the ML forum.
Yes, the gap between wood and metal at the pin lug was 3/16". Sorry but I didn't think of taking photos at the time.
The "outrageous price" I charged was $80.00. That included the cost of a new guard from Track of the Wolf, browning and fitting the guard to the wood and return shipping."

 

[Rifleman1776]

Jackie e-mailed me and asked about a difference between what he said and what someone he referenced told me. I'm not going to reply as I don't want to get inbetween him and someone he has known a long time.
I do wish though he would address the real issues addressed here. e.g. why did he ship me a 31" barrel when 36" was ordered? And, why is the breech face so rough I can't turn a scraper?

 

[tg]

" TG, yeah, Stebbins,I know you (been complaining for 10 years"

actually I have been advising others to use caution after a bad experience that could not be rationalized away and an acknowledgement and suggestion that a change would be made in being up front with barrel profiles,I kept our dealing private for a long time, untill I saw several repetitions of the same BS, I thought improvement was being made and reflected as much in many posts as I wanted to give anyone the benifit of the doubt and consider all circumstances yet now ten years later ...the same story repeats itself, yea reap what yea sew and any bad Karma that befalls you JB is by your hand not from that of others and talking in circles will solve nothing nor will selective pms giving a ficticious self serving spin, I wish you well but you have dug your own hole in the gun building community and pretty much lost the courtesy or resolving any issues in a private manner due to the length and gravity of the problems.you did offer me a new gun ten years ago and I declined feeling that the proclaimed change in procedure as to properly informing customers about the product was more important for me personaly and a trade off I was happy with, so don't pee down my leg and tell me it's raining, I have lived in the Pacific NW long enough to know rain when I see it, again good luck to you and yours in the rest of your journey

 

[Shine]

You never sent the money to return it as promised Go thru your superior filing system find my name and address ,I sent it to you 3 times. Its sitting on my bench waiting waiting waiting.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Well I have gotten into an exchange of emails with Mr. Brown. He keeps trying to excuse his work by the fact that it was done for cheap. To some extent I do understand that, but only to some extent. Here is the latest, where he asked me why Darko didn't simply have me build the gun in the first place.


I don't and never have built guns for commercial sale. Certainly I have sold or traded some guns I have built for myself after I lost interest in them and wanted to try out something different, but I never made a business of it. I never advertised for business but have only done work for myself and a few friends such as Darko. At 69 years of age I now seek to do even less since my back just won't tolerate standing at the bench for hours at a time. I took that job quite reluctantly as a favor to a friend. I really was not pleased with how the job turned out. You had already rounded the wood down more narrow than the width of the trigger guard rear finial so I could not fit the new guard perfectly, I could only make it "better than it was".
If you're asking if I would build a gun for six hundred dollars, certainly not, but I also would not send a gun out, nor even assemble a gun with such an obvious defect no matter what the price. You drilled the pin from the same side that stood proud of the wood so I can't see how you could have failed to notice it. I certainly understand your taking some shortcuts, such as eliminating the lock panel and tang moldings to meet a price point, but I consider the trigger guard fitting inexcusable.

And Mr. Brown's reply.

Joe,
but I consider the trigger guard fitting inexcusable. As I do also if that is the way it was. Making no excuses, don't have an explanation. Darko should have taken a complete refund and paid twice as much for someone else to build his gun. Think so?
Jackie

Mr. Brown fails to consider that I am strictly a hobbyist helping out a friend, where as he advertises as a gun builder. He is free to set his price for whatever he feels his time is worth and if he isn't getting enough to pay for reasonably decent work then he is free to raise his price.