Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
Looking for a Jacobite (1740's, plaid) wool short frock coat and weskit, size 42-44. Long shot, I know....
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WANTED Jacobite coat and weskit
- Thread starter Ranger Boyd
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kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
Can't help with clothing, but periodically reproduction tartan cloth is offered for sale. Go to xmarksthescot.com and find the tartan subforum and ask. Through the listings there I've bought repro Jacobite tartan, Culloden, and a 1790s version of McDuff.
I know where you can get one in linen, but not wool, and especially not plaid wool. Sorry. Good luck though, hope you score!
Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
Cool, thanks!
Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
Where would the linen coat be?
That would be Townsends web site. It is available in about 12 different colors in linen. There is a link to the color sample pages. Hope this helps.
https://www.townsends.us/collections/coats-frocks-and-jackets/products/frock-coat-fc156-p-1252
They have some bonny good hats there as well. Especially the fur felt ones! LOL
https://www.townsends.us/collections/coats-frocks-and-jackets/products/frock-coat-fc156-p-1252
They have some bonny good hats there as well. Especially the fur felt ones! LOL
Not a frock coat, but it is tartan, pricey though!
http://www.kilts-n-stuff.com/outlan...gals-plaid-authentic-premium-wool-tartan.html
http://www.kilts-n-stuff.com/outlan...gals-plaid-authentic-premium-wool-tartan.html
Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
I'll have a look...
I had wondered about Townsend, too. Seems like a Jacobite short coat in 1745 looks a lot like a sleeved weskit ca. 1770...unless I am missing something?
This site is in the UK, they have a mid 1700's wool frock coat. Scroll down to get to it. I found another site that had very nice Jacobite linen shirts as well.
https://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/Napciv.html
https://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/Napciv.html
kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
Anything to do with the Outlander series is fantasy and should not be considered Jacobite. A sleeved waistcoat would be very appropriate to the Jacobite era, probably in some common single color. Kilts in those days were bulkier around the hips than the are today and longer coats worn with the would cause the wearer to look like he was wearing a bustle, however it probably wouldn't have been considered gauche in those days.
The Peterman jacket is purely a modern invention, probably not common before the 1920s, and maybe not standardised until the 1950s. In fact, any highland item of clothing nowadays would not be appropriate for the Jacobite era. Before the early 20th century highland dress was quite varied, but come the era of cataloged items of attire things became more standardized and unimaginative.
The Peterman jacket is purely a modern invention, probably not common before the 1920s, and maybe not standardised until the 1950s. In fact, any highland item of clothing nowadays would not be appropriate for the Jacobite era. Before the early 20th century highland dress was quite varied, but come the era of cataloged items of attire things became more standardized and unimaginative.
Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
Don't worry: I've never seen "Outlander," and I know about Sir Walter Scott's Victorian baloney, but thanks for the heads up. I am starting to think a sleeved waistcoat of the shorter 1770s cut may indeed be the way to go -as you say - to minimize interference with the belted plaid.
That makes sense. Not being Scottish, let alone a highlander, I never gave much thought to how a mid length frock coat would look over a kilt. Hehehe, a bustle, your killing me here! That stuff on Outlander sure looks Scottish to my eyes, even if it is not period correct. I like that show just for the flinters! Had a foreman on the RR, electrician boss, I was a machinist, anyway, he would wear a kilt and play the bagpipes. I always liked the sound of them, though they could sound kind of mournful on some of the tunes he played. Sounded real good to my ear, but again, I'm German decent, not Scottish, although mom said we have a wee bit of Irish on her side. Dad's was all German. Mom used to tell me I had just enough Irish in me I had a short fuse and would get pissed off quickly, and then the rest being German, once pissed, I would pout and stew about it. Nice combo huh? LOL Luckily for me, I've mellowed with age!
kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
The costumer for Outlander did a lot of research through Xmarksthescot.com, so many things got done right. However the tartan is make believe. The bonnets are totally accurate. I have three made by the woman who made bonnets for the series.
I watched the complete series once it became available on Netflix, quite a while after others saw it. The only thing from it I'd like to see adopted for general wear is the nipple dress with swan pins.
Celtic croft is a place to look for homespun fabrics. Modern kilt cloth is much more finished than the old stuff.
There is a kilt maker in France, Lady Somebody, Crystal I think, who has made sleeved waistcoats. You might be able to get pictures from her.
I watched the complete series once it became available on Netflix, quite a while after others saw it. The only thing from it I'd like to see adopted for general wear is the nipple dress with swan pins.
Celtic croft is a place to look for homespun fabrics. Modern kilt cloth is much more finished than the old stuff.
There is a kilt maker in France, Lady Somebody, Crystal I think, who has made sleeved waistcoats. You might be able to get pictures from her.
In the aftermath of Culloden, the British government began a systematic program to crush all aspects of the clan system in Scotland. One of the anti-Scottish laws passed was the "Dress Act of 1756 " banning highland dress in Scotland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_Act_1746
This ban remained in force until repealed in 1782.
There were similar bans aimed at Highland cultures and traditions such as carrying or owning broadswords, requiring the blades to be broken. Today, there are many original basket hilt broadswords, however the blades are almost always later replacements from the middle/late Victorian era.
After Culloden, many Scots left the United Kingdom. There are re-enactors who like to portray immigrant Scots in North America, and wear Highland style dress. Doing that raises the question whether or not the laws in force in the United Kingdom were also in force in the British North American colonies as part of the English intention to crush all aspects of Highland culture and prevent the Scots from becoming a problem (again).
Instead of supposing wearing Highland/Jacobite or "Scottish" dress could have been done, can it be documented that it was permitted by the colonial governments in North America, or by extension banned by the existence of the Dress Act of 1746.
At black powder competitions, rendezvous, and what an individual does alone or in a small group in the woods may not matter. On the other hand, at historical re-enactments aimed at being accurate, can the wearing of the main components of Highland dress be historically -documented-?
Note:
After posting the comments above, I tried looking for information on the subject. The link below is a discussion of the subject, although I wouldn't say it was conclusive. It is a starting point for anyone who want to take the subject further, without repeating most of the comments in there.
Great kilts in the American colonies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_Act_1746
This ban remained in force until repealed in 1782.
There were similar bans aimed at Highland cultures and traditions such as carrying or owning broadswords, requiring the blades to be broken. Today, there are many original basket hilt broadswords, however the blades are almost always later replacements from the middle/late Victorian era.
After Culloden, many Scots left the United Kingdom. There are re-enactors who like to portray immigrant Scots in North America, and wear Highland style dress. Doing that raises the question whether or not the laws in force in the United Kingdom were also in force in the British North American colonies as part of the English intention to crush all aspects of Highland culture and prevent the Scots from becoming a problem (again).
Instead of supposing wearing Highland/Jacobite or "Scottish" dress could have been done, can it be documented that it was permitted by the colonial governments in North America, or by extension banned by the existence of the Dress Act of 1746.
At black powder competitions, rendezvous, and what an individual does alone or in a small group in the woods may not matter. On the other hand, at historical re-enactments aimed at being accurate, can the wearing of the main components of Highland dress be historically -documented-?
Note:
After posting the comments above, I tried looking for information on the subject. The link below is a discussion of the subject, although I wouldn't say it was conclusive. It is a starting point for anyone who want to take the subject further, without repeating most of the comments in there.
Great kilts in the American colonies
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Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
Absolutely concur (good discussion in the links, btw). Interestingly, in addition to Jacobite as a secondary impression for some of the guys in my group (our primary is an F&I PA Provincial), we do Oglethorpe's Independent Co (War of Jenkins' Ear) as well. Hence the Highland kit....
Very interesting. Kind of enlightens me on the whole Brave Heart thing! Pretty bad when the government tells you how you may dress or not, especially when it isn't even your government! And, although I don't care for young people who like to walk around with their ass hanging out of their pants, pants down to their knees, it is a free country here, so I put up with it. I just look elsewhere if possible. I think the Scott's and Irish have a well deserved reputation for liking a good fight, and never backing down from one, even when the odds aren't on their side.
Seems like it took the Brits a while to figure that out.
It didn't take the King long before he was bossing the colonists around with some heavy taxes, and restrictive laws. Seems old habits are hard to break. My guess is any Scottish, or Irish settlers really, really, really, didn't want to put up with that all over again! It was really all about finances, the British lost their ***** in the cost of fighting the French, and others, then tried to recover from that on the backs of the British people and the colonists. Well, that's my understanding of it, but I could defiantly be dead wrong. I like history, but am by no means a historian, especially world history!
Seems like it took the Brits a while to figure that out.
It didn't take the King long before he was bossing the colonists around with some heavy taxes, and restrictive laws. Seems old habits are hard to break. My guess is any Scottish, or Irish settlers really, really, really, didn't want to put up with that all over again! It was really all about finances, the British lost their ***** in the cost of fighting the French, and others, then tried to recover from that on the backs of the British people and the colonists. Well, that's my understanding of it, but I could defiantly be dead wrong. I like history, but am by no means a historian, especially world history!
I've inherited a bunch of clothing, including a black wool frock coat. It's fitted and pleated in the back, very well made.
Ranger Boyd
40 Cal
Hmm...coat look a bit long, but...
Any idea on sizes? The tan and blue waistcoats might be of use to me if in the 42-44 range. Are they perchance linen lined?
Thanks!
Any idea on sizes? The tan and blue waistcoats might be of use to me if in the 42-44 range. Are they perchance linen lined?
Thanks!
The blue one measures 23" across with a smooth type lining, nylon or poly blend is my best guess. The tan/yellow one measures 26" across, that lining looks like a linen/cotton blend or a rather smooth linen. Nice hand stitched buttonholes, very nicely made.
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