Jaeger Length

[BigDeutscher]

I just got off the phone with my barrel maker
I was going to ask him to add some length to my
Fowler I am building in .69
He had already started and cut the blank to 48 as I requested earlier.I said it was not a problem and I would take it as ordered .
He told me to wait a min got back on the phone and said he had another piece that he could make me one 51 and 3/4 long but had no use for the barrel ,that he just started.
Unless I wanted it for something else......
So the story starts ...A Jaeger is now in the works after the fowler and I need to know the length of them .
I am a big fellow and a short gun kinda looks like a toy in my hands ,so long story short question .What would be the longest acceptable length on a Jaeger very early say....1740 ish?
Deutsch

 

[Stophel]

A good average for 18th century German rifles would be about 28". Sometimes a bit longer, Often shorter. Longer barrels do exist, but they are VERY uncommon.... unless you are talking about heavy bench rifles, there's plenty of them with near 4' barrels, but that's not the same thing.

I have seen only a couple of attributed Swiss rifles, both had longer barrels, about 43". I do NOT know if this was the norm in der Schweiz, since such a generalization can't be made with only a couple of examples...

 

[hoochiepapa]

Not to disagree with you, Stophel, but the Jaeger rifle that I'm using as a model has a almost 38" barrel. So if you go longer, you wouldn't be pushing the cart over the hill. But like he says, longer is rare.

 

[tg]

Chris, is every 18th century German gun a Jaegar? I have seen lists of many Dutch rifles with 3'and 4' barrels imported to the colonies circa 1750-60, what caused the Germans to make the shorter barrels compared to the Dutch?

 

[BigDeutscher]

I was hopeing this thread would spark some intrest
some of you that know me ,understand I like to be ....well ,lets just say Different.
I showed my Fowleriffel to some of the old timers at Dixons .And their responce to it was, encouraging .With over 150 gun smiths in the York and Lancaster from around 1730 foward who can say who had what, as long as the parts fit into the time period,
So now back to my future project. A long Jaeger
of .69 cal .
Is there a book on the subject ,I should look for
or maybe something on the net?
Oh wise ones ...please help me in my quest for knowledge.
Deutsch
With a name like this I should own a Jaeger!

 

[rabjr]

http://www.flintlocks.com/pdf/rifle.pdf

 

[Stophel]

I've always refused to use the word "Jaeger" to refer to a rifle. It's a modern, made up thing that someone years ago thought sounded cool, I guess. "Jaeger" means "hunter"...the man, not the gun he carried.

I think more often than not, rifles in Germany were used for target shooting (THE sport in the 18th century German speaking lands), more so than for hunting. The offhand balance of the shorter barrels was a big plus. And they really handle SOOOO nice!!! :grin:

I can't really comment much on the imported Dutch rifles/barrels, only that I will presume that since they were made for the American market, they made what Americans wanted... longer barrels. The Dutch made rifles for themselves, too, and so far, all of them that I have seen are comparable to German rifles in length.

Yes, you will run across a German hunting-type rifle with a longer barrel (3 feet or more) on rare occasion. But they will be outnumbered by rifles with 2' barrels by 400 to one (or more)...and usually, when I do see the longer barreled German rifle, it is a small caliber bird/small game rifle. :wink:

Again, though, there is the possibility that longer rifle barrels were more common in Switzerland....something that I have tried to find out about, but come up empty so far. It's been a while since I did any looking into it, and I need to try again. :wink:

 

[BigDeutscher]

Thanks Stophel
You always have a insightful note to add to the conversation.Tg ...I like the question are all German guns Jaegers?
The Question I have posed here again is Length
I believe as long as the gun to be built has German Early influence in all style of parts and
design. It is what we call today a Jeager.
I have some very long Flintlocks in my collection,
And am building a New England Fowler in.69 with a 51 inch Barrel.
When that is finished I will start my German Hunting Gun ,again in .69 but with a barrel between 30 and 36 inches swamped.
Deutsch

 

[Southarkrob]

BigD....Have you thought about a Christian Springs transitional rifle...they are Jeager like.. That is what I am wanting to have built if I can get my fowler sold. Just a thought..Rob

 

[BigDeutscher]

what time period is the Christian springs

 

[piteruu]

Look here. Length 134,5 cm. I think the LOP is about 13" and barrel is about 38".

 

[BigDeutscher]

Wow
That is some rifle!
I dont think mine will be that fancy.
Deutsch

 

[Rifleman1776]

Jaegers are relatively short barreled rifles. They come from several European countries. As the name implies most were for hunting. Some were adapted for strictly target. But that is not common. I have save an excellent article from the American Rifleman, published in the 1970's about Jaegers. It dispels many of the myths associated with Jaegers. e.g. all were large bore, they weren't; they were loaded with a bare ball driven into the barrel with a mallet, not so, etc.
Anyone who asks me, via e-mail, I'll be happy to send the article to you, via e-mail as an attachment.

 

[rich pierce]

As Stophel indicated, the term "jaeger" to describe a rifle is not any more useful than the term "Kentucky rifle". It means many things to many people. It's never clear if one means a rifle gun made in Germanic countries in Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries, or any shorter-barreled rifle with Germanic architecture (a very broad term) whether stocked in Europe or the colonies. So if asking if jaegers had a specific length, it is best to specify when and where, made by whom.

Any articles or books written in the 1970's should be read with the perspective that they were written 40 years ago and much has been learned since then.

 

[BigDeutscher]

It is late summer 1740...
So here I am living in York County P.A. down by the river. My Family has now,lived and farmed this valley for nearly ten years.We have done well for areselves and go to Yorktown to sell to the English at market each week.We have been able to buy land from W.Penn on both sides of the river .The German familys have gatherd funds for a ferry to move goods and supplies back and forth accross the river at Pool Forge.We have welth and things are good. its late summer and I will be ordering a new hunting gun for food and defense from Indians.My old gun, brought from Schwienfurt , will be given to my son who who at 13 is now of a good age to help hunt and defend our land and property .
Men of are Church who learned their skills in the old country are building guns to suit are needs here.
Order placed now will be ready by first snow
Fritz says he knows what I need and will build me one that will fit .Zer Gut"
Das Deutschen

 

[Mike Brooks]

Here's how I handled the big bore early rifle problem.
Big early gun
This gun is a .69 caliber rifle with a 44" Hoyt barrel. I stocked it in curly maple and used early dutch/german mounts. I tried to stear clear of any identifiable "schools" so it could have been built about anywhere. If you're going with a barrel any londer than 34 to 36" I'd go with a colonial stocked gun instead of european.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Here's another I did with the same theme in mind. I don't remember the barrel specs but it was probably at least 44" long. Here againI used curly maple and a mix of dutch/german parts, this time using an english lock.
Another early colonial gun

 

[Stophel]

That kind of thing is right up my alley. :wink:

This one might be an example (if it had a rifled barrel... everybody's been wanting smoothbores...)
www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks/1750

Of course, it has an English lock, which were imported in mass at the time.

 

[tg]

Sounds like a good project, I would stay away from te "transitional" rifle thing that term does not have a widely accepted meaning and leans more toward that very old Jeagar grows a long barrel and becomes the American longrifle thing.Mr Brooks has the right idea stay with earlyish colonial styling as best as one can with not much in originals to go by Brooks or Stophel are good sources for tips on this instead of a direct copy of a Euro gun, the Christian Springs shop is later than what you are looking for,personaly I would not hesitate to break the mould and stretch the barrel out a few more inches and really get away from the Euro look, but either way it sounds like you are putting some solid though into the project and this is always worth the time

 

[Stophel]

Here, back to long rifle barrels...

Here is a photo of the only attributed (unsigned) Swiss rifle I know of (well, there's another from the 1680's, but it has a short barrel). Anyway, it's the top gun. The bottom one is apparently Swiss too, but is smoothbored.

The rifle barrel is 46" long. :wink:

I have seen another LOUSY photo of another rifle that MAY be Swiss, and it has a longer barrel too, but I can't find that photo now.

Shumway illustrated a German rifle (looks like Main River area or SW German) several years ago in Muzzle Blasts that had something like a 3' barrel. The "Edward Marshall" rifle MAY be a restocked German rifle barrel. So, they're around, but extremely uncommon. :wink: