Jim Chambers on Leather vs. Lead Flint Wraps

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roundball

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Jim Chambers reply to three issues from forum discussion regarding leather vs. lead for flint wraps:
===============================================
From: Jim Chambers
To: roundball
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Jim.......some Clarification / Assistance Please ??

roundball,
I always recommend leather around the flint. Leather was the traditional choice for civilian guns.
Some military locks used lead, but those locks had cocks designed to handle the lead.
Most civilian cocks were not designed for lead and can break due to the extra stress created by the lead.
Whoever stated that the use of lead wraps around the flint on Chambers locks will void the warranty is absolutely correct. If you are using lead around the flint and the cock breaks you will need to purchase a new cock. We will not replace it under warranty.
Besides, a lock that is properly made should spark and function perfectly with leather.
Bottom line is this, using lead will not add anything to the lock's performance and can cause the cock to break.
Jim
================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: roundball
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:14 PM
Subject: Jim.......some Clarification / Assistance Please ??

Hello Jim...hopefully you'll be good enough to answer a quick question about Flint lock technology...Here's the situation:

1) An individual advocates / promotes the use of "lead flint wraps" instead of leather, claiming that they improve a lock's performance.

2) Another individual claims if a heavier weighted cock is required for performance, that suggests something else is wrong with the lock and the heavier weight is simply offsetting that other problem.

3) Another individual claims that if heavier lead flint wraps are used in a Chambers lock that it might void the warranty.

I volunteered to ask you if you'd be good enough to weigh in on this subject, given us the benefit of your expertise based upon your obvious knowledge of your own locks of course, as well as your overall knowledge and experience with flint lock technology in general...we'd very much appreciate it.

Thank you,
roundball
 
Jim Chambers gave the same answer last year too.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195341[/url]
 
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that is a tough one, trust to Chambers experience or other expert sources..might have to think about that for a while..I'm done thinking, I'll go with Jim.
 
Claude said:
Jim Chambers gave the same answer last year too.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195341[/url]

Yes indeed...and there is no other individual more knowledgeable about Flintlock technology than Jim Chambers.

Claude, scanning through that old thread made me realize just how long this pot has been unnecessarily stirred, causing a great deal of controversy for over a year.

At least from now on it'll be easy to just drop this thread's URL into any future threads where lead wraps are claimed to be traditional, and are advocated to be used on sporting locks, etc, so those who don't yet know better won't end up making a mistake.

In fact, it might be very good if Jim's reply could be clipped & permanently posted in the Information Section of the MLF.
 
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One, I don't have a Chamber's lock. I have a Tradition's lock.
Two, my 20-25 grain maybe lead wrap is about the same as the leather as far as weight goes.
Three, my lock produces about three times the sparks using lead as it does using leather, and a whole lot more of them are in the pan also.
Mr. Chambers may be an expert on his own locks, and even about how flintlocks should be designed. With all due respect, He doesn't know beans about my Tradition's lock.
One man says one thing, and another tells a different story. I took the gun into a dark room and tested both bevel up and down, and leather or lead. I go with the one that accurately predicted the outcome of the experiments. When Paul and I first had this conversation it was on another website. He challenged me to try the lead wrap and see what happened. My gun goes to the field with a lead wrap ever since.
Rather than asking someone to tell you, find out for yourself. Simply take a sharp flint, a piece of leather, a piece of lead flattened out of a ball, and you gun into a dark area and hold it so that you are looking directly at the pan and pull the trigger. Test bevel up and bevel down. Test lead against leather. I believe you will find that your lock preffers one way over another on both questions. Shoot your gun the way it shoots best. I am kinda shocked to hear that the Tradition's locks are stronger than what is supposed to be the best out there tho!
 
You laid that out pretty good in my opinion. Each man should size up his own equipment. :thumbsup:

Also, I think Paul's article on Chuck Hawks' site discussing this issue and others is probably the best information on shooting flinters I have ever read.
 
Whew! Made it!!

Thought it was going to burn!

But I see someone stirred up the pot again.!!! :rotf:

lead or leather?
.490 or .495?
.015 or .020?
2f or 3f?
3f or 4f for primer?
.45 or .50?
Hawken or Longrifle?
Wool or Linen?
Brown or White (Barrel)?
Brass or German Silver?
Coke or Pepsi?
Diet or Regular?
Wild Turkey or Jack Daniels?
"Yes, Dear" or fight?

:surrender:


Happy Holidays to you all !!!

:hatsoff:
 
PAmuzzleshooter said:
Whew! Made it!!

Thought it was going to burn!

But I see someone stirred up the pot again.!!! :rotf:

lead or leather?--leather
.490 or .495?-----.495
.015 or .020?-----.020
2f or 3f?---------3f
3f or 4f for primer?--4f
.45 or .50?---------whatever
Hawken or Longrifle?--Longrifle
Wool or Linen?--------Wool
Brown or White (Barrel)?--Whatever
Brass or German Silver?---Brass
Coke or Pepsi?------------Coke
Diet or Regular?----------Diet :(
Wild Turkey or Jack Daniels?-- :barf:
"Yes, Dear" or fight?--------- :shocked2: No brainer! :rotf:

:surrender:


Happy Holidays to you all !!!

:hatsoff:
Thought I'd post the correct answers, so ya'll could see yer score..
sniper :v :grin:
 
Thanks Sniper. Now I know. Except for the last one. What do you mean "no brainer"? :rotf:


Coming Dear!!!!

Bye
 
gacitizen said:
You laid that out pretty good in my opinion. Each man should size up his own equipment. :thumbsup:

Agreed. My lock sparks great using leather. Using lead, even if it did produce more spark, would do nothing for me.

gacitizen said:
Also, I think Paul's article on Chuck Hawks' site discussing this issue and others is probably the best information on shooting flinters I have ever read.

Paul's articles are available in our Articles section.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/83[/url]/
 
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Well being there is no paperwork that comes with the lock that says so.

and I never read this article.

Id say legally, he would have to replace failed parts.
 
PAmuzzleshooter said:
Whew! Made it!!

Thought it was going to burn!

But I see someone stirred up the pot again.!!! :rotf:

lead or leather?
.490 or .495?
.015 or .020?
2f or 3f?
3f or 4f for primer?
.45 or .50?
Hawken or Longrifle?
Wool or Linen?
Brown or White (Barrel)?
Brass or German Silver?
Coke or Pepsi?
Diet or Regular?
Wild Turkey or Jack Daniels?
"Yes, Dear" or fight?

:surrender:


Happy Holidays to you all !!!

:hatsoff:


Hmmm, how about the correct answer to the question, "Where in the world have you been," when she meets you at the door at 11:00 pm?

From experience, the response of, "Where have I been? Where have you been? I've been in every bar in the county looking for you." is not the correct answer. :nono: :rotf: :rotf:
 
Thanks for the link and pointing that out to me.

How would I get there without the link? I'm dazed and befuddled. :hmm:

*** I found it ***
 
gacitizen said:
Thanks for the link and pointing that out to me.

How would I get there without the link? I'm dazed and befuddled. :hmm:

*** I found it ***

One can always follow the "bread crumbs" at the top of the page...

Location: Main Index » Forum Index » Member Resources » Articles - Charts - Links » Articles and How-To
 
Mr.Chambers,
Thank you for the advice "disclaimer" abought useing lead with your locks.I am sure I will stay with traditions and pedersoli from here on out.

Skunkskinner, :thumbsup:
 
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