Just Bought The Dutch Schoultz System

[tecum-tha]

Dutch System works great with muzzleloaders made with modern steel barrels. On my original barrel from around 1745, the dry lubed patch system is simply too dry. After trying bore butter lubricated patches for a while, I used just the moose milk on the patches for the woods walk this year. I am currently trying pure Ballistol in my loading block, but need to check the ultimate groups. This wrought iron barrel sucks up oil and grease like a sponge...
His system works like a charm on my modern steel barreled rifles though... Money well spent against the money you would spend buying stuff you don't need or which doesn't work properly.

 

[Dr5x]

This puzzles me.
My "Dry Lube System" allows for a variety of slicknesses from D--n Slick to Not slick enough to load.
Which formula were you using in your (I'm Jealous) 1746 model rifle?
Different Rifles use different loading systems.
Even with two rifle barrels of the same calibe from the same manufacturer might need slightly different loads.
If you're a nit picker.

 

[Dr5x]

Bullfrog,
Who was your mentor?

Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

My original intent was to offer the "Letters" to past subscribers but I have since come to believe that there is a lot of general information there that might be of interest to Non-sunscribers, hoping that they will bear in mind that there may be a few puzzling things in there that the subscribers would understand.


Dutch

 

[Black Jack]

Yours is a very generous offer to members of this forum. It's a valuable resource by itself and, from my own experience, all the more so in conjunction with your system.

 

[Ole Frog]

Bullfrog,
Who was your mentor?

Dutch

A great guy named Tom Phillips

 

Look at my web site http://www.blackpowderifleaccuracy.com
It explains my effort as best as I can.

Read the tips. Read the Q&A, read the Must Read Letter.

Don't buy the System

Dutch

Okay, I won't buy the system.

I went to look at your website, and received a "Server not found" message. Seems you left an r out of your url.

For those interested the correct url is:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

 

[tecum-tha]

Dutch,
I usually use 1:6 or 1:7 ratio for my modern steel barrel and they work well.
The moose milk patch works well, when I shoot the gun immediately (on the range). For hunting I tried ratio down to 1:3 dry lubed linen patches.
After several hours loaded and then firing, this patch was shooting lower than freshly loaded. Showing me an additional amount of friction drag in the barrel. We speak approx. about 3" low at 60 yards. I then tried pure bore butter on denim, which worked consistent but is a mess to clean up. My goal is to use "period correct" fabric though and I tried linen with pure Ballistol at the Fort Greenville match. Loading was nice and I have to check ultimate accuracy on paper. I will also try some mink oil soon.
As another example: I put a good soaked patch of WD-40 in the breach as you recommend. After a few days it is very hard to pull the patch. And if you pull it, it is almost dry and fuzzy (no rust but some black). It seems the capillary action in the breach area is high and draws the oil out. I think wrought iron barrels do the same as you described with the "pliers in the oil pan", but much faster and stronger. This barrel thus seems to be shooting best with a comparably slick patch compared to modern steel barrels.
That is the best explanation which is consistent with your findings and makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Dr5x]

I wish someone would change the heading.

I do not understand why, if you are getting accuracy with the less slick patches, that you convert to a much slicker patch for hunting/
But then I'm young.
In my experiments I found that the slicker the patch lube the more open the group.
You seem to be changing too many things too often to be learning from your efforts.

Remember,
What works best for you is the best method regardless of advice from anyone else including me.

Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

You are correct, Sir.
There are two "r" in a row and that is where most, obviously including me, make the mistake

 

[Dr5x]

Bullfrog,
In view of a recent trend nationally, I have pitched all my carefully maintained records of subscribers who don't regard firearms as being "Icky" so I can not look up Tom Phillips.

I am happy to see someone else agrees with a lot of my theories and advice.

Dutch

 

[cynthialee]

It is a shame that you had to circle file your files, but understandable.

 

[gunner69skmc]

I keep reading information about your "system" so I just ordered a set using PayPal. It should make interesting "late nite" reading material. Regards, John (Jack) Lalley

 

[tecum-tha]

Dutch, maybe I was not clear enough.
I have several rifles with modern steel barrels and in these, the 1:6 and 1:7 ratios work well.
Then I have the antique rifle with a wrought iron barrel. This rifle delivers good accuracy with a moose milk sprayed patch, when I shoot it immediately. A moose milk patch is not good for hunting, because the water would rust the bore/ soak the powder over time. So, to work up a hunting load,I tried several dry lubed patches.
All these patches showed too much drag compared (not slick enough) to the moose milk patch. The explanation I think what is happening I gave in the thread above. This barrel just "changes" patch slickness over time by sucking out the oil and thus the slickness. I am working on it...

 

[Dr5x]

Tecumtha? It just occurred to me that I have had NO experience whatever with wrought iron barrels and that any advice or opinion I might have would be purely speculative.
I'm still puzzled why you would be experiencing the marked difference unless it MIGHT be that the wrought Iron bore might be rougher than the newer steel bores.

Just a guess based on no experience

Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

Dear Mr.Lalley
Its also very interesting in the morning with a cup of coffee.

Let me know your thoughts. You should see it all Monday.

Any interest in the Collected Letters (For lack of a better name)

dutch

 

[tecum-tha]

Dutch, yes the wrought iron bore is rougher than my modern steel barrels. Still, it is amazing how much oil that barrel sucks up. When you put a almost soaking wet WD-40 patch in the breach, after about a week it comes out almost dry and very fuzzy. And the patch usually has some black carbon on it which gets pulled out by the oil as well, but no rust.
So, from a historic standpoint, I really think more grease/oils were used with muzzleloaders than we need to use nowadays. I hope to be able to shoot a little this weekend and see if my theory is correct.

 

[dikman]

I just wanted to thank Dutch for allowing his "Accuracy Letters" to be posted on the forum. They make for very interesting reading :hatsoff: .

 

[Dr5x]

The wrought iron barrel may be a bit honeycombed with rust
created over the past several centuries which would make it as porous as you describe.

I get carried away on my campaign against the Hot Soap Water rifle cleaning method. It is OK to use that method but you are then not allowed to complain that a few days after cleaning you can pull rust or black schmutz out your barrel.

 

[cynthialee]

I stopped using hot water on my long guns due to advice garnered here.
My revolver gets the hot soapy dish water treatment.