Just received my Lyman Plains Pistol - Questions on care and use

[Trigger1212]

Gents

Just picked up a very nice used LPP in 54 cal., will post pic in the future. Picked it up as it looks like it would be a hoot to shoot and hoping it will make a nice companion to my Pedersoli Mortimer flinter in 54 cal.

Not new to BP or Muzzloading but this IS my first muzzleloading pistol so a few questions:

1. Suggested load?
- Plinking/target
- Potential hunting (deer)

2. Powders on hand include Swiss 1.5F, 3f, and Goex 4F, 2F. Balls, Hornady .530, patches .010" and .015", wonder wads for under the patched ball.

2. Cleaning routine? I usually take the barrel off, remove the nipple, stick the whole works in a bucket of hot water then run the cleaning rod up and down in the bore with a tight fitting patch on the jag. This usually cleans it up nicely and quickly, and so far has done a nice job of cleaning out the bottom of the barrel where it gets narrow (can't remember the name of that chamber area!). Then let it dry and run a patch through bore with ballistoil. Lock removed and cleaned, wiped off and oiled. Nipple reinstalled.

Anyone have a better method?

3. Trigger is fairly light but has a lot of creep so will have to break out the stones.

4. Sights bold enough (bi-focals, WHAT a pita!), but the rear sight is very narrow, no light on sides of front blade. Will have to file it wider.

Looking forward to the replies. Cheers!

Wade

 

[Rat]

Doesn't look like you need much advice, and a ML pistol is no different than a ML rifle.

I bought mine used, and I think the previous owner did a trigger job on it, has a perfect trigger, but I keep hearing most people say theirs could use some work. But, they also put a nice silver sight on it, which works very well. (and the pistol is extremely accurate)

I believe it is safe to load them up as hot as you want. It's the same barrel and breech as the rifle. Although, recoil will become pretty harsh with really hot loads. Seems like most guys like loads in the 30-35 grain range. I load my .50" with 60 grains of fffg when I carry it as a side arm when hunting. I was shooting it with 70 grains for a while, but recoil was right on the border line, as far as being able to control it, and still shoot accurately. So I let up on the throttle a bit.

Heavy loads (real heavy) can crack the stock where the cross bolt for the lock goes through, if there is no gap between the lock plate and the bolster. If there is a gap, the barrel will recoil against the breech. No gap, and it will recoil against the lock plate.

But again, normal people stay in the 35 grain range. I like 40 grains for a light, or normal load, in my .50", that would probably be just right for a .54".

 

[Zonie]

The only advice I can give is, use a thinner patch on the ball than the ones you've been using on your rifle.

Pistols are usually loaded with less than half of the powder than a rifle uses. The lower pressures from the pistol charge won't damage a thinner patch and the thinner patch will make starting and ramming the patched ball much easier.

Where rifles often are loaded with .015-.018 thick patches, a .010 to .012 thick patch usually works fine in a single shot pistol.

 

[Rat]

Truth. You don't want a pistol that is hard to load, or requires a stand. (for ease of loading at the range, a stand is fine...but for hunting, trekking, exploring, kind of cumbersome to lug around!!)

 

[Rat]

Speaking of ease of loading, you might try this. Just a sammich paper bag paper rolled into a tube, same size as the ball, drop in ball, pour in your powder charge, fold end over and glue shut with tiny dot of glue. Then dip ball end in hot, melted, pure bee's wax.

To load, tear off end, pour in powder, reverse direction and put ball, paper and all, in muzzle, ram down. (you can tear off excess paper if you wish, but leave ball in paper. Cap nipple with capper hanging around yer neck, and SHAZAM! Good to go. Very quick, and slicker than....well you know.

The cool thing about these is, that they are very close in accuracy to a regular patched ball. Try it, you'll like it!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Actually you don't have to reverse the cartridge after pouring in the powder, just use all that paper as a wad. Either way works just fine.

 

[Rat]

I've wondered about that but haven't tried it. I think that would hold true with a smoothbore. As the ball end of the cartridge is glued shut, will the ball carry it with it down range. ? Or will it shed the paper? If not, will accuracy be maintained? This is a rifled bore remember. I wonder about those things. !!! I don't doubt that it would work well at very close range....but what about 25, 30-40, 50 yards?

I do know that when reversing it, it does shed the paper, same as a cloth patch. And is accurate. I wonder if it can shed the paper, when the glued end is in front? Or does the ball still fly true still wrapped in the paper? Perhaps the paper will disintegrate? ??

Okay okay, I'll give it a try next week or so.

 

[Desperate Lee]

I am wondering the same thing there Rat. I have read about it before somewhere but you glue your ends and soak in bees wax correct? Do you do that with the PA conicals? Do you weigh your charges are just measure with a dipper?
DL

 

[Trigger1212]

Gents,

Thanks for the good information.

Zonie - Had planned to build a holder for bench loading but you comment on the thinner patch was a good point that I hadn't thought about. If it pans out that will definitely make life easier in the field!

Rat - RE the loads, will probably start with 35-40 gr plinker loads, not really plinkers but you know what I mean, better term would probably be "pleasant" loads. and then work up some that I would be comfortable taking hunting.

Three questions:

1. I've heard about the stock splitting with heavy loads. Read your explaination as to what could cause it but having a hard time wrapping my head around it (visualizing it), can you provide a picture of the area of concern?

2. What do you have wrapped on your grip? Looks interesting, and useful!

3. I have read some of your other thread comments on the LPP, in one it shows a holster you had made. That looks like just the ticket for a man heading for a walk in the woods! Can you provide the maker and contact info? Would looove to have one made. Especially like the nipple protector feature.

Are you a hand caller or do you use electronic calls, or both? I use both, electronic is a Fox Pro, no cougars where I live though!

Cheers!

 

[Desperate Lee]

Sometimes we get Mountain lions passing thru the ranch in Brownwood. Was helping the rancher one night with spooked cattle down by the creek. That cat cut loose with a scream and my blood went cold. Will never forget that call. It was like some woman getting murdered. Started carrying my 45LC after that when i was in the field.
DL

 

[Griz44Mag]

You are going to love that pistol...
I can keep a 3-4" group at 50 yards with mine. I load with 40 gr 3f, .530 ball and .010 mink patch.
On bench I use a stand, on walks I carry a ball board with balls patched and a brass flask with a 40gr snout. Reloads are easy and quick. This is my walkabout pair.

 

[Poboy]

Doesn't look like you need much advice, and a ML pistol is no different than a ML rifle.

I bought mine used, and I think the previous owner did a trigger job on it, has a perfect trigger, but I keep hearing most people say theirs could use some work. But, they also put a nice silver sight on it, which works very well. (and the pistol is extremely accurate)

I believe it is safe to load them up as hot as you want. It's the same barrel and breech as the rifle. Although, recoil will become pretty harsh with really hot loads. Seems like most guys like loads in the 30-35 grain range. I load my .50" with 60 grains of fffg when I carry it as a side arm when hunting. I was shooting it with 70 grains for a while, but recoil was right on the border line, as far as being able to control it, and still shoot accurately. So I let up on the throttle a bit.

Heavy loads (real heavy) can crack the stock where the cross bolt for the lock goes through, if there is no gap between the lock plate and the bolster. If there is a gap, the barrel will recoil against the breech. No gap, and it will recoil against the lock plate.

But again, normal people stay in the 35 grain range. I like 40 grains for a light, or normal load, in my .50", that would probably be just right for a .54".

I like the way you think....me too! I like heavy loads, especially in hunting situations.

 

[Rat]

Desperate, on slug loads, I carry a couple of them, but with them you have to pour in the powder, then remove the slug/PA from the paper. Those .50" PA's are like .512", would not fit with patching. The other thing about them is that they are lubed, and loaded lubed they will migrate up the bore when carried in a holster. I dry all the lube off them, and they stay put, but that makes them difficult to ram home in a fouled bore. Since they print to the same POI/POA as the balls, I usually carry the gun loaded with the slug, then any repeat shots would be ball. I weigh my charges, but a dipper is just as good.

1. No picture, but the lock bolt goes horizontally through the stock, then into the lock. If there is no gap between the bolster and plate, the bolster can drive the lock plate backwards, and hence the bolt into the stock-wood. Since the grain of the wood is/should be/usually is running the length of the stock, that enables that bolt to split the wood. But, as long as there's a gap, the recoil of the barrel goes into the breech and tang, as it should.

2.Bow handle wrap.

3.Hickman's Saddlery in Post Falls Idaho made that holster, but they don't do mail order, you have to take your gun into the shop, and they make the holsters to fit. I just posted a thread on the holster, with good pics to show the placement of the belt loop, the degree of cant, and all that. It works very well, spent yesterday cougar calling, and it amazes me every time, I forget it's even there sometimes, which is amazing for such a big long pistol. Never hits the ground when you sit down. When I do sit, I slide it over more towards my middle, and it's like right there, no squirming or reaching around for it.

I use both types of calls, but the electronic sure works better, otherwise, as they are focused on where the sound is coming from, they pick up any movement...which they do even when you are 30 yards or more away from an electric call! Those big cats are so careful. And if they don't see you, they smell you. Takes a lot of calling to get a cat in the sights. But I'd sure feel cheap shooting one out of a tree. No offense hound-hunters.

Yes, I'd agree that charges in the 40 grain range are more practical and reasonable. I like 40 grains, as then it's on par, especially a .54", with a good .45 Colt or .44-40. I think the .50" needs a little more ooomph, and if I do have a cat come up on my right side, from behind, I want to maximize it's power. So my heavy loads are kind of my cat-calling loads. For just general sidearm use while hunting, hiking, trekking or exploring, I'd go with 40 grains. But having said that, !!! the 60 grain loads are accurate, and it kicks about like a .44 mag, which I have a lot of time and experience with, so it works for me.

Yep Griz, I also love ball-blocks, loading blocks. I carry a two-ball block so that as long as I'm not pressed for time, I can load a patched ball, which is a little more accurate than the cartridge. If there's no time, then things are so close and personal that accuracy don't matter. !!!

Okay, long winded response. Thanks for the comments!

 

[Bad Karma]

Desperate, on slug loads, I carry a couple of them, but with them you have to pour in the powder, then remove the slug/PA from the paper. Those .50" PA's are like .512", would not fit with patching. The other thing about them is that they are lubed, and loaded lubed they will migrate up the bore when carried in a holster. I dry all the lube off them, and they stay put, but that makes them difficult to ram home in a fouled bore. Since they print to the same POI/POA as the balls, I usually carry the gun loaded with the slug, then any repeat shots would be ball. I weigh my charges, but a dipper is just as good.

1. No picture, but the lock bolt goes horizontally through the stock, then into the lock. If there is no gap between the bolster and plate, the bolster can drive the lock plate backwards, and hence the bolt into the stock-wood. Since the grain of the wood is/should be/usually is running the length of the stock, that enables that bolt to split the wood. But, as long as there's a gap, the recoil of the barrel goes into the breech and tang, as it should.

2.Bow handle wrap.

3.Hickman's Saddlery in Post Falls Idaho made that holster, but they don't do mail order, you have to take your gun into the shop, and they make the holsters to fit. I just posted a thread on the holster, with good pics to show the placement of the belt loop, the degree of cant, and all that. It works very well, spent yesterday cougar calling, and it amazes me every time, I forget it's even there sometimes, which is amazing for such a big long pistol. Never hits the ground when you sit down. When I do sit, I slide it over more towards my middle, and it's like right there, no squirming or reaching around for it.

I use both types of calls, but the electronic sure works better, otherwise, as they are focused on where the sound is coming from, they pick up any movement...which they do even when you are 30 yards or more away from an electric call! Those big cats are so careful. And if they don't see you, they smell you. Takes a lot of calling to get a cat in the sights. But I'd sure feel cheap shooting one out of a tree. No offense hound-hunters.

Yes, I'd agree that charges in the 40 grain range are more practical and reasonable. I like 40 grains, as then it's on par, especially a .54", with a good .45 Colt or .44-40. I think the .50" needs a little more ooomph, and if I do have a cat come up on my right side, from behind, I want to maximize it's power. So my heavy loads are kind of my cat-calling loads. For just general sidearm use while hunting, hiking, trekking or exploring, I'd go with 40 grains. But having said that, !!! the 60 grain loads are accurate, and it kicks about like a .44 mag, which I have a lot of time and experience with, so it works for me.

Yep Griz, I also love ball-blocks, loading blocks. I carry a two-ball block so that as long as I'm not pressed for time, I can load a patched ball, which is a little more accurate than the cartridge. If there's no time, then things are so close and personal that accuracy don't matter. !!!

Okay, long winded response. Thanks for the comments!

if things are that close and personal, you may not have time for a reload... perhaps something like this?

 

[Rat]

Oh you so funny! Actually, I carry a K-Bar on my lower right leg, and trust in it more than any pistol, if the threat has made physical contact, or it's coming for me because I made a poor shot. (two poor shots, if both my rifle and pistol are empty) Keep it crazy-razor sharp, and never do camp chores, or anything else with it. Did have to gut a Cougar with it once, as I forgot to bring my Old-Timer, but that was the exception.

 

[ppg1949]

Woodnbow, that's a sweet looking knife. What is the name of it?

 

[Desperate Lee]

I am with you Rat. My USMC K-bar is kept razor sharp. Uncle Sam gave it to me for a reason, actually he doesn't know I borrowed it when I left in 1974, but I guess it's mine now. Right?
DL

 

[Rat]

Right. It's yours, if we don't tell anyone. And remember, two men can keep a secret, if one of them is dead.

 

[Bad Karma]

Woodnbow, that's a sweet looking knife. What is the name of it?

Huh. Just noticed this ppg... if you’re around it’s the Hissatsu by crkt. Great knife and as. Much as I like my K-bar, I like this better for carry. I also carry a Hissatsu folder every day. Nice knives, not really expensive but serviceable.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Three questions:

1. I've heard about the stock splitting with heavy loads. Read your explaination as to what could cause it but having a hard time wrapping my head around it (visualizing it), can you provide a picture of the area of concern?

2. What do you have wrapped on your grip? Looks interesting, and useful!

3. I have read some of your other thread comments on the LPP, in one it shows a holster you had made. That looks like just the ticket for a man heading for a walk in the woods! Can you provide the maker and contact info? Would looove to have one made. Especially like the nipple protector feature.

I think Rat provided excellent answers to these questions in post #13, but I have a couple of comments.

Cracking in the stock as Rat described so well may certainly occur with repeated use of heavy loads, but a lot of single shot muzzle-loading pistols are found broken through the grip. This is not from shooting, but from improper loading technique. If you ram a tight-fitting ball and patch with the butt of the pistol resting on a hard surface, you put tremendous strain on the wooden grip. Best technique is to put in your powder, get the ball and patch in the muzzle, then grab the pistol by the barrel and hold it so the butt isn't resting on anything while ramming. This takes the stress off the grip.

Regarding the holster, you might not need one. The Lyman Plains Pistol, as issued, comes with a belt or sash hook. This looks like a long, flat spring extending down the off side of the gun, parallel to the barrel. You just stick the hook under your belt or sash with the pistol outside the belt, and it carries nicely. The belt hook is retained by the lock bolt head, and it is removable. Lyman provides a weirdly shaped little lock bolt inlay or side plate which can be put in if you don't want to use the belt hook. Since you bought your pistol used, maybe the belt hook did not come with it. I think you can order a replacement from Lyman.

The belt hook may not be as secure as a holster, and it won't give the pistol any protection. However, many of us are happy with it for the type of shooting we do, and it saves the expense of buying a custom holster.

Loads, balls, and patches have already been covered. However, I would recommend that you browse through the owners' manual, which has information on loading, shooting, care and cleaning. Lyman has digital copies of the manuals available on their website for free, if you didn't get the original manual with your gun.

Have fun with your pistol!

Notchy Bob