Keeping Minie in Barrel

[Yanqui]

I have a .58 Zouave I don’t shoot much. I may bring it along as a back-up gun to my .54 rb rifle this fall. It shoots dead on at 50 yards. The Minie’s I shoot are, of course undersized and at least once I noted the ball moved forward, probably when carried muzzle down a bit (and I am conscious of that happening). I know I could shoot patched rb in this gun or some conical like a Buffalo bullet (do they still make those?) but it’s getting late to start fooling with what I don’t have right now. Is there something that can be put over the ball such as hornets nesting or ??? to keep the ball from moving forward?

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

I have a .58 Zouave I don’t shoot much. I may bring it along as a back-up gun to my .54 rb rifle this fall. It shoots dead on at 50 yards. The Minie’s I shoot are, of course undersized and at least once I noted the ball moved forward, probably when carried muzzle down a bit (and I am conscious of that happening). I know I could shoot patched rb in this gun or some conical like a Buffalo bullet (do they still make those?) but it’s getting late to start fooling with what I don’t have right now. Is there something that can be put over the ball such as hornets nesting or ??? to keep the ball from moving forward?

I've used a thin over-shot paper wad. You can punch or cut out some from milk cartons, or buy 24 gauge wads; I dunno, you might even be able to seat a 20 ga wad over the minie.

 

[wiscoaster]

Have you tried using a tighter-fighting Minie ball? Seems to me by your description they aren't tight enough to stay rammed, and if they're not tight enough to stay rammed, they're not going to engage the rifling properly either. Just my off-the-top thoughts though I have no experience with a .58 cal Zouave. Shouldn't be needing wads to contain a Minie ball.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Yanqui, I think your Minie' ball is undersized and you need a stiff greasy lubricant to hold the Minie' in place.

 

[dave951]

I'd bet your minie is waaaay undersize.

 

[maillemaker]

A well-lubed expanding ball tapped firmly onto the powder should not go anywhere.

If you really want to be sure use a paper-patched expanding ball, like the British style of cartridge. Even when they massively undersized their bullets down to .550" (naked size; paper was on top of this) they did test with soldiers running and jumping about and the bullet did not move down the barrel.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Just an idea, place your mini base down on a 3/4” ball or marble and tap the nose gently. That will expand the base a tiny bit and could give you the grip needed. This may get you going with out changing any of your load.

 

[Erwan]

Your Minié is too small, a Minié must go down the barrel with only his weight, but you must have a bit of friction: grease, air escaping through the barrel rifling when the bullet is dawn over the powder charge, tap lightly with the ram to allow the powder to enter the bullet's skirt, which will widen slightly. This will be enough to hold it in place..... provided the bullet is perfectly calibrated: I've never had a Minié bullet moving in the barrel...
If the bullet is the first load, and the barrel is clean, you can burn a load of powder without putting a bullet in, and then load normally as explained in first: that'll help to maintain the bullet in the groves...

 

[Yanqui]

Excellent advice all! Thank you. I’m going to have to get to the range and test the 2 different size minie’s I have. I obviously don’t want to be spooked I’ll blow my jaw off with an unseated projectile. That Zouave is heavy as a fence post to tote around the way I hunt but would be awesome to take a buck with.

 

[Erwan]

I’m going to have to get to the range and test the 2 different size minie’s I have. I obviously don’t want to be spooked I’ll blow my jaw off with an unseated projectile. That Zouave is heavy as a fence post to tote around the way I hunt but would be awesome to take a buck with.

If in doubt, you can make an impression of your barrel with an oversized bullet, so that, with a micrometer or a good quality analog caliper, you'll know the exact caliber...

 

[Eterry]

I have a .58 Zouave I don’t shoot much. I may bring it along as a back-up gun to my .54 rb rifle this fall. It shoots dead on at 50 yards. The Minie’s I shoot are, of course undersized and at least once I noted the ball moved forward, probably when carried muzzle down a bit (and I am conscious of that happening). I know I could shoot patched rb in this gun or some conical like a Buffalo bullet (do they still make those?) but it’s getting late to start fooling with what I don’t have right now. Is there something that can be put over the ball such as hornets nesting or ??? to keep the ball from moving forward?

I've been shooting minie balls for about 15 years. For accuracy, they need to be snug, almost tight. I'd say that's your main issue. Also use a good stiff grease to help keep it where it belongs.
I've hunted with minies often, what they do to game is hard to get over.

If you cast you can beagle the mold, I used receipt paper, and my minies came out .003" larger. They work perfectly. My best group was 2.75 MOA @100.
Lee Precision has beagling listed in their FAQs.
I never found a minie hold group over 60grs fffg.
YMMV

 

[Eterry]

If in doubt, you can make an impression of your barrel with an oversized bullet, so that, with a micrometer or a good quality analog caliper, you'll know the exact caliber...

The guys over at NSSA sent me a box of different size minies. That's How I learned my P61 likes a .578 minie. My .575 just rattled down the bore, leaving patterns not groups.

 

[Eterry]

I've seen match musket shooters drag a set of bathroom scales to the range, weighing the poundage of ram rod pressure.
Consistency is the Key.

 

[Eterry]

@Yanqui, I think your Minie' ball is undersized and you need a stiff greasy lubricant to hold the Minie' in place.

I've used gun grease, like tractor grease before, that makes it stick to the riflings.

 

[TNGhost]

Excellent advice all! Thank you. I’m going to have to get to the range and test the 2 different size minie’s I have. I obviously don’t want to be spooked I’ll blow my jaw off with an unseated projectile. That Zouave is heavy as a fence post to tote around the way I hunt but would be awesome to take a buck with.

I have a Navy Arms/Antono Zoli Zouave and "standard" Minies were loose like yours and they didn't shoot all that well. So, I read up on it and fund an article about how the bore sizes varied and many were using to small a bullet. I tried different sizes and ended up with a .578 cast from Lee's 578-478M mold. Easy enough to load, stays put and shoots more accurately than the smaller diameter ones.

 

[Zapadach]

Just an idea, place your mini base down on a 3/4” ball or marble and tap the nose gently. That will expand the base a tiny bit and could give you the grip needed. This may get you going with out changing any of your load.

I have done something similar years ago when I had a .58 caliber Zouve. I would roll a .575 Minnie length wise on a flat hard surface, then stand it on it's skirt, then give it a sharp rapp on it's nose with light smooth peice of wood to expand the skirt. It improved accuracy, as well as saving on powder.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I've used gun grease, like tractor grease before, that makes it stick to the riflings.

I thought grease and BP fouling is a bad mix

 

[Grenadier1758]

For the one shot hunting application, it can be dealt with by a simple cleaning with a grease cutting dish detergent and water.

 

[Eterry]

I thought grease and BP fouling is a bad mix

It's never bothered me or my muskets.

 

[SPQR70AD]

It's never bothered me or my muskets.

it was said here 100 times that BP fouling mixed with liquid dinosaur makes it a lot harder to get rid of. why isnt axle grease used for patches?