Keeping Muzzleloading Alive

[Splitear]

bring in non scouting affiliated shooting instructors

I wouldn't mind spending the occasional Saturday teaching kids to shoot muzzleloaders, but I am not about to become a Den Mother to a bunch of Cub Scouts just to do it.

I like kids...in short doses and occasionally.

Look into 4-H. You do have to take one of our trainings, but once you enroll and become an instructor, you can commit as much or as little as you want. I have guys who do a couple of one day workshops for me each year, and it's incredibly valuable. We do require the 4-H certification though, as we specifically teach how to instruct youth and Positive Youth Development topics.

 

[Col. Batguano]

"I fear for the future of the country, and all we have fought for and won at such great cost. The youth of today have no appreciation or interest in building upon that, and I fear that the country may be lost in the span of just one generation."

Benjamin Franklin

(this is a paraphrase of one of his notable notables.)

 

[dave951]

bring in non scouting affiliated shooting instructors

I wouldn't mind spending the occasional Saturday teaching kids to shoot muzzleloaders, but I am not about to become a Den Mother to a bunch of Cub Scouts just to do it.

I like kids...in short doses and occasionally.

You do NOT have to be affiliated with Scouting in terms of managing a troop or den. You do have to sign up as an adult volunteer and do YPT, Youth Protection Training online, every 2 years, but again, that is not a commitment to a trip, den, council or camp. YPT takes a couple hours online every two years. Past that, commitment level is your choice.

While I do like that 4H is working with kids, the fact is there are far, far more kids in Scouting. Couple that with the fact that 4H has it's own certification that is recognized only by 4H and NOBODY else and the question then really becomes "who is more active in your area?"

In our program, we chose Scouting for that reason. Our group of instructors are affiliated with Scouting as I've outlined previously. We go to camp one day per week while it's in session and that's 6 sessions in the summer. None of us goes to any troop weekly meeting. We will hold events for Scouts when requested outside of the camp schedule. The fact that our certification is recognized outside of Scouting means we can also work with Royal Rangers, Trail Life, Girl Scouts, Demolay, etc, again, something you cannot do with the 4H cert.

 

[user 53891]

You do NOT have to be affiliated with Scouting in terms of managing a troop or den. You do have to sign up as an adult volunteer and do YPT, Youth Protection Training online, every 2 years, but again, that is not a commitment to a trip, den, council or camp. YPT takes a couple hours online every two years. Past that, commitment level is your choice.

While I do like that 4H is working with kids, the fact is there are far, far more kids in Scouting. Couple that with the fact that 4H has it's own certification that is recognized only by 4H and NOBODY else and the question then really becomes "who is more active in your area?"

In our program, we chose Scouting for that reason. Our group of instructors are affiliated with Scouting as I've outlined previously. We go to camp one day per week while it's in session and that's 6 sessions in the summer. None of us goes to any troop weekly meeting. We will hold events for Scouts when requested outside of the camp schedule. The fact that our certification is recognized outside of Scouting means we can also work with Royal Rangers, Trail Life, Girl Scouts, Demolay, etc, again, something you cannot do with the 4H cert.

4H or Scouting, it doesn't matter, it's just great involving these youngsters.
Like I said I'm 74, but it seems that too many of those in their 60's, 70's, 80's, are more angry because they are getting old, and unwilling to pass their experience on to these youngsters, then they condemn them.....if we as adults don't provide them with our experiences, knowledge, then these kids and the ML sport is lost!!

 

[Splitear]

You do NOT have to be affiliated with Scouting in terms of managing a troop or den. You do have to sign up as an adult volunteer and do YPT, Youth Protection Training online, every 2 years, but again, that is not a commitment to a trip, den, council or camp. YPT takes a couple hours online every two years. Past that, commitment level is your choice.

While I do like that 4H is working with kids, the fact is there are far, far more kids in Scouting. Couple that with the fact that 4H has it's own certification that is recognized only by 4H and NOBODY else and the question then really becomes "who is more active in your area?"

In our program, we chose Scouting for that reason. Our group of instructors are affiliated with Scouting as I've outlined previously. We go to camp one day per week while it's in session and that's 6 sessions in the summer. None of us goes to any troop weekly meeting. We will hold events for Scouts when requested outside of the camp schedule. The fact that our certification is recognized outside of Scouting means we can also work with Royal Rangers, Trail Life, Girl Scouts, Demolay, etc, again, something you cannot do with the 4H cert.

I think a lot of the "competition" has been sqaushed between scouts and 4-H, at least in my area. I have several 4-H members who are scouts, and vice versa. In our county at least, 4-H has a more robust Shooting Sports program. We each have our lane, and in my opinion, both organizations do a great job. We try to work together when possible, including providing opportunities to promote one another's program. I'm all for youth development, and unlike some, I have a lot of hope for the future generations.

 

[gunnyr]

I'll offer my perspective of being a young man (17) whos new to muzzleloading myself. For those saying that "kids are too lazy these days" or "they have no interest", you're wrong. Kids are willing to learn, but many do not know where to start or don't have parents who are willing to support their interests. It also doesn't help that muzzleloading has a high barrier of entry and finding things such as powder and caps can be a challenge. The one thing that will save this sport are good mentors who genuinely want to teach and grow interest. There's my two cents.

And 2 cents well spent.
gunny

 

[TFoley]

Sadly not here in Australia.

Nor here in UK.

 

[user 53891]

And 2 cents well spent.
gunny

Excellent 2 cents gunny!!

 

[Tenmile]

I’m spending tomorrow with my 12-year-old grandson at our muzzleloading range. I’m taking a Ruger bolt action 22 for him, black powder a little later. This is what he specifically asked for, just the two of us, and yes, he is a city kid. I’m an eternal optimist. I believe this generation could do anything that any other generation did if they had training and encouragement. I’m well aware of the problems we have, but I’m not giving up on the kids.

 

[user 53891]

I’m spending tomorrow with my 12-year-old grandson at our muzzleloading range. I’m taking a Ruger bolt action 22 for him, black powder a little later. This is what he specifically asked for, just the two of us, and yes, he is a city kid. I’m an eternal optimist. I believe this generation could do anything that any other generation did if they had training and encouragement. I’m well aware of the problems we have, but I’m not giving up on the kids.

Tenmile, that is exactly what it is going to take, patience, fortitude, kindness, encouragement.

 

[dave951]

I think a lot of the "competition" has been sqaushed between scouts and 4-H, at least in my area. I have several 4-H members who are scouts, and vice versa. In our county at least, 4-H has a more robust Shooting Sports program. We each have our lane, and in my opinion, both organizations do a great job. We try to work together when possible, including providing opportunities to promote one another's program. I'm all for youth development, and unlike some, I have a lot of hope for the future generations.

I wouldn't phrase it as "competition" but the reality is 4H is more prevalent in the more rural areas. Scouting is still far, far larger in the rest of the country. Again, I'm not dissing 4H, but folks need to know the differences.

 

[Mike in FL]

Remember the news nor so long ago when the media got stuck on some scout scout leaders being pedophiles. I don't think that just because the sensationalism and the media hype has died away that there are less pedophiles there. If we have an organization of boys, especially one that is natiowide, it will not be without adult evil a minded leaders; they are drawn to it away from parents in huge numbers

 

[Mike in FL]

Didn't get to finish. The sheer numbers of boys is an invitation to abusers.

 

[Mike in FL]

If my kids ever spouted such garble I'd be ashamed of them.

Pity us sir for we are mere mortals and neither as virtuous nor as infallible as you.

Why would you label me infallible? I did not attack you or any other specific person, yet you did me with your sarcasm. You have attempted to belittle me as a person because I have an opinion. Why? Don't you see how that reflects on you as an individual? If you can't control your own mouth, how might you teach your kids anything? Please don't be part of the problem. You are grown up and it is nigh impossible to help you now; it seems you have already established your own mindset. If you believe parents fail their children, then it follows that your parents failed you. All that said, calm down and don't say things on this otherwise friendly forum that negates why the forum exists. I feel your ego won't allow you to leave this alone. I'm just requesting in public that you think before you post.

 

[Mike in FL]

I had my 10 year old shooting unmentionables last weekend (very large, belt fed unmentionables). He likes the muzzleloaders too, but he hasn't worked out the flinching, he anticipates the cap pop and blowback. It's probably because I run musket nipples on mine. I need to get a primer nipple and see if that helps.

No offense meant Mike, but that couldn't be more opposite of what Jesus had to say about children.

 

[Flintlock]

If there is a rendezvous or black powder shoot in the area it needs to be well advertised. Hell unless a person is really into it already it's usually very hard for a new person to find out there are like minded people out there. It's to get new blood without a transfusion.

 

[TDM]

My hat is truly off to those of you who go out and actively try and grow the sport. I gave my Sons the opportunities to shoot and hunt and taught them to the best of my abilities. They both still love it, but are too busy to partake the majority of the time. My oldest granddaughter is 10 and likes to shoot, she has a youth .22 and wants to learn to hunt. Other granddaughters are too young. I do have one grandson, the youngest at 3, so I hope I can hang in there for him. But overall, with all things considered, I’m sorry to say that I’m not optimistic about the future. Sure hope I’m wrong.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

While the program has changed, it's still a fantastic venue for kids to learn outdoor skills. I'm an Eagle Scout and proud to have my son in Scouting.

From another Eagle Scout 1978. I totally agree with you! Kids NEEDS to be outside.
I often show older kids how to shoot flintlocks & cap locks.
I seldom put that on video, but, THEY do love it when the opportunity arises.

I checked into the BSA & 4H requirements & could never get the time off work to go thru the school.
The 4 H program was a full weekend in a city 5 hours drive from home. I'll have to pass.

I understand why those groups require classes...its for insurance requirements.
So....we teach them ( outside from any organizations ) safety rules & how to shoot the guns under VERY strict supervision. The absolutely love it.

 

[stephenprops1]

I'm pretty sure criticizing your target audience, kids, let's say, will not help getting them involved. If you shoot at Perry or Anniston, you may notice the many, many kids involved. Diverse in every way imaginable. And damn good shots.
The climate and environment of these places is very positive.
The eras of match, flint, and cap were harsh times between and among many people. How this is treated can certainly turn off many, especially youth and their families and parents who guide their children.
I shoot and have shot many disciplines and I have noted than many of the BP/old time events are shrinking.
Gee, I dunno, maybe those that use "*****" targets and such should reconsider.
Same goes for events, social media, and YouTube filled with all sorts of politics, religion, and flag waving.
What's the point?
Stick to the hardware and the shooting, encourage safety and fun, and our numbers will grow.

I gave my 16-year-old nephew one of my 45 caliber, percussion rifles. He has shot various types of guns with me since he was 9 years old.

 

[RonRC]

My exposure to young people gave me a biased, more positive outlook about them. Until retirement, I was privileged to be on the faculty of an engineering university that was very different than the typical liberal arts schools. The students were, for the most part, very highly motivated and disciplined. To survive academically, they had to be. Those that couldn't adjust to the work load and high demands would transfer out by the end of their second year. Those that stuck it out had job placement rates that were well up in the 90s of percent. During the 2008 recession, when liberal arts colleges has 15-20% job placements upon graduation, our institution had dropped to 96%. When the economy is booming, most students get 5 or 6 job offers.
So, I saw the young people who would be the producers and leaders in the future. They may not be able to survive in a forest, gut an elk (although some could if they learned from their families), make a rope from hemp or cook a squirrel, but I would trust them with my life when they designed a bridge, selected the proper alloy to make machinery, designed a drinking water treatment plant, developed a 7 nanometer high speed semiconductor chip, write an algorithm to assist a missile to shoot down an incoming missile, use geophysics to find oil or rare earth minerals, develop a mine, or design a wing for a hypersonic missile.
Some of these same students put their differential equations, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, physical chemistry books in their lockers and play football well enough to win their division II conference year after year. Same for the wrestling team and the mountain bike team.
These are the young people that give me hope.