Keeping Muzzleloading Alive

[Nazgul58]

My exposure to young people gave me a biased, more positive outlook about them. Until retirement, I was privileged to be on the faculty of an engineering university that was very different than the typical liberal arts schools. The students were, for the most part, very highly motivated and disciplined. To survive academically, they had to be. Those that couldn't adjust to the work load and high demands would transfer out by the end of their second year. Those that stuck it out had job placement rates that were well up in the 90s of percent. During the 2008 recession, when liberal arts colleges has 15-20% job placements upon graduation, our institution had dropped to 96%. When the economy is booming, most students get 5 or 6 job offers.
So, I saw the young people who would be the producers and leaders in the future. They may not be able to survive in a forest, gut an elk (although some could if they learned from their families), make a rope from hemp or cook a squirrel, but I would trust them with my life when they designed a bridge, selected the proper alloy to make machinery, designed a drinking water treatment plant, developed a 7 nanometer high speed semiconductor chip, write an algorithm to assist a missile to shoot down an incoming missile, use geophysics to find oil or rare earth minerals, develop a mine, or design a wing for a hypersonic missile.
Some of these same students put their differential equations, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, physical chemistry books in their lockers and play football well enough to win their division II conference year after year. Same for the wrestling team and the mountain bike team.
These are the young people that give me hope.

Exactly!! Our son is a Rose Hulman grad Chemical Engineer. Awesome kid.

Don

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Hi Tom, How our Deer Laws got into this current state is a mistory to Most BP shooters. As you say ,a .45" RB or EVEN a 480grn .451" will drop 'em in their slots.(paw prints) and an unmentionable 500/450
didn't do a bad job. One wonders how the Victorians and Edwardians manages to put deer in their Larders. Insufficent M/E surely can't be used as an excuse and accuracy can't be questioned. O.D.

 

[user 53891]

Your statement is that your logic is infallible. The words you use are definite statements of a lost cause. How else could anyone read them?

We have raised 4 kids, we have a Chemical Engineer, IT manager, RN with a major Oncology service, Their spouses are an Electrical Engineer, IT for a huge company, and hopefully another spouse soon who has a Masters Degree in music.
After retiring from Heavy Equipment I went to work with my wife at the High School. She taught dual credit and AP courses for 38 years. I ended up running their In School Suspension class for 4 years, students who got in trouble for one reason or another.
I surprised myself by connecting with the students, especially the knot heads I had in my room. They were all behind in their work and had issues at home. They had to calm down and work on missing assignments. NO PHONES allowed. They almost all responded to the proper guidance.

Next to my room was the special needs room and they were hands down my favorite students. Nothing false or deceitful about them. Their ability to understand things and their emotions were all over the place . I told them dumb jokes and laughed with them. Often one would have a bad day and they would spend time with me until they calmed down. It was a humbling and uplifting experience.

True, there are a lot of teenagers with issues, mostly due to the parents. They are a small percentage of the students. The good news is the majority are the same messed up/lovable kids we were at that age. Most will become good. hardworking members of our society.

Mike on FL: These are the same kids in the front lines in all our Armed Forces. Giving their time and lives to the greater good. You should be ashamed to treat them with anything but respect.

Don

Don, you summed it up completely. Seems that fellow really can't control his own mouth, then belittles someone else for his own temper tantrum. As you said you can't always blame the kids for the way they are raised. If as a parent you have done your job and done your best, been involved with your children, and the kid goes south, then it's on the child. However, you hit the nail on the head on every point.

 

[user 53891]

Well, it’s a matter of opinion. From a fair number of the post I read from folks complaining about not being able to find this & that, I just don’t think they’re trying hard enough. And I assume most of these are from younger guys, could be wrong. But condemning another age group for having the time and money to keep ample supplies on hand for their hobby makes no sense to me. It’s not my responsibility to insure someone has what they need for a hobby, that responsibility lies with the individual.

TDM, you are correct completely. it seems these days that if someone doesn't get their way, or things aren't going the way they used to, they just blame someone else for their own failure to do the research. I've made it a point to take one hour on my laptop and research for #10 & #11 caps, and powder!! It's everywhere, some in small quantities, some in large quantities, some at reasonable prices, some at high prices. If you voted for this situation, then you got it. Deal with it.

 

[Flint Striker]

Someone made a good point about the barriers to entry. Many of the entry-level side hammer percussion and flintlock guns from 10 - 15 years ago are much more expensive, parts are harder to source, many are out of production. Nice custom guns cost as much as a whole collection of cartridge guns, and building a kit is still expensive and not for everyone. Black powder was very hard to get when Goex went out of business (I hear they may restart production), and many people still can’t find percussion caps due to supply chain problems and shortages. Black powder and caps are themselves restricted, so even without the costs a kid or teenager needs a supportive adult to get into muzzleloaders.

Another thing - though I obviously support getting kids into shooting - they’re not the only market. Millennials aren’t all lazy jerks. That generation appreciates antique/vintage items and handmade unique stuff. Muzzleloaders are also pretty apolitical as far as guns go. People argue about what you “need” for defense or hunting, but I’ve never heard anyone argue to confiscate the flintlocks (at least not since Lexington and Concord).

 

[TobJohn]

Muzzleloaders are also pretty apolitical as far as guns go. People argue about what you “need” for defense or hunting, but I’ve never heard anyone argue to confiscate the flintlocks (at least not since Lexington and Concord).

That touches one of the most important boons. The legal barrier to entry is very low. It can (usually) be shipped to your door and outside of New Jersey, hunting, and fire safety restrictions, there are few state by state differences in the laws.

 

[RonRC]

We are not the first to moan and groan about the failures and disappointments caused by those pesky young people.

There are quotes, attributed to a king of Mesopotamia and to Socrates, about how lazy the youth are, and how things were better when they were kids. Unfortunately, source can not be pinpointed:

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

There are some quotes or how the next generations are unfit to inherit the world of their elders that can be confirmed:

“Schools of Hellas: an Essay on the Practice and Theory of Ancient Greek Education from 600 to 300 BC”, Kenneth John Freeman (paraphrasing of Hellenic attitudes towards the youth in 600 - 300 BC)*

“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”

The Art of Poetry: an Epistle to the Pisos, Horace 1st Century BC

Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
We, their sons, are more worthless than they;
so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.

Book III of Odes, Horace circa 20 BC

1300 AD

In all things I yearn for the past. Modern fashions seem to keep on growing more and more debased. I find that even among the splendid pieces of furniture built by our master cabinetmakers, those in the old forms are the most pleasing.

And as for writing letters, surviving scraps from the past reveal how superb the phrasing used to be. The ordinary spoken language has also steadily coarsened into a terrible corruption.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

I took the NRA courses, became an Instructor, and ran some sessions of .22 Marksmanship for Scouts at Camp Strake and other campouts. All of the kids had a good time, but some of them really got into it!

For almost all of them, it was their first time to shoot a firearm. I still remember my first time, at a Decatur County Fair in Indiana in the '60s. I think most of us still remember our first shots.
I hope those Scouts remember their first shots.
I bet they will.

My first time shooting was with Scouting. Now look what happened!

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Good golly, you fellows certainly enjoy an argument. Seven pages of complete nonsense.

 

[Bushfire]

We are not the first to moan and groan about the failures and disappointments caused by those pesky young people.

There are quotes, attributed to a king of Mesopotamia and to Socrates, about how lazy the youth are, and how things were better when they were kids. Unfortunately, source can not be pinpointed:

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

There are some quotes or how the next generations are unfit to inherit the world of their elders that can be confirmed:

“Schools of Hellas: an Essay on the Practice and Theory of Ancient Greek Education from 600 to 300 BC”, Kenneth John Freeman (paraphrasing of Hellenic attitudes towards the youth in 600 - 300 BC)*

“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”

The Art of Poetry: an Epistle to the Pisos, Horace 1st Century BC

Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
We, their sons, are more worthless than they;
so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.

Book III of Odes, Horace circa 20 BC

1300 AD

In all things I yearn for the past. Modern fashions seem to keep on growing more and more debased. I find that even among the splendid pieces of furniture built by our master cabinetmakers, those in the old forms are the most pleasing.

And as for writing letters, surviving scraps from the past reveal how superb the phrasing used to be. The ordinary spoken language has also steadily coarsened into a terrible corruption.

Just to play devils advocate, all those civilisations eventually crumbled into the oblivion of history.

Hard times breed hard people, soft times breed soft people. I think current generations are in the latter. It doesn't mean they can't be good people or that there is no hope however. And especially to BP it would be good to see people putting in the effort.

 

[user 53891]

Good golly, you fellows certainly enjoy an argument. Seven pages of complete nonsense.

It's not complete yet

 

[RonRC]

Just to play devils advocate, all those civilisations eventually crumbled into the oblivion of history.

Hard times breed hard people, soft times breed soft people. I think current generations are in the latter. It doesn't mean they can't be good people or that there is no hope however. And especially to BP it would be good to see people putting in the effort.

You are correct. Every society that has existed ultimately has collapsed.
And you also are correct that every generation has a mix of people, some who are decent and those who are scum sucking leaches and the large masses in between. And most have been in all of those categories at various points in their life.
Keeping on the theme of BP: I was in my 60s before I saw the light concerning muzzleloaders. It took just the right circumstances to trigger that interest - a gathering of people demonstrating muzzleloaders and a generous individual who let me shoot his flintlock. Like a bad drug, one try and I was addicted. That's why I invite anyone who shows any interest to come with me to the range.

 

[Trapper Scott]

I place a great deal of value on my time and resources and will be the first to tell anyone that if a youngster is it 12 years old or one so old they have one unsteady leg with the other one on a banana peel I will spend my time teaching them what little I know about firearms. I recently had my new neighbor who is about 25 years older than me wanting to shoot a muzzleloader rifle simply because he had never done it before. We had a good time on shooting the Crocket rifle that day and then yesterday my oldest grandson wanted to shoot my Blunderbuss. Another awesome day. You just can't put all kids in one box because they play video games and have parents that keep them sheltered from life. There are city kids that are just as interested in outdoor activities as there are country bumkins like myself. They just need someone to mentor them and give them a chance. I can think of no sounder investment than to teach others and watch them blossom with enthusiasm.

 

[hanshi]

I've worked at helping groups of kids a few times and try to interest them individually now.

 

[SPQR70AD]

dont know how young guys will get interested in ML when old guys are buying everything related to shooting them

 

[TDM]

If you snooze, you lose.

 

[user 55620]

If you want kids to shoot muzzle loaders, convert the patch boxes to take AA batteries and send the instructions bt TXT.

 

[user 53891]

If you want kids to shoot muzzle loaders, convert the patch boxes to take AA batteries and send the instructions bt TXT.

Funny......but TRUE!

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

I do my best to keep muzzleloading alive by inviting those that has never shot a BP gun to an afternoon session FREE of charge. I've worked with lots of new shooters to get a taste of the hobby.
This boy couldn't get enough of shooting that Lyman's percussion pistol.
I think he shot that pistol at least 25 times that miserable afternoon.
Here is an example at the 9:25 time stamp:

 

[user 53860]

One on one mentoring 13 year old assembling a kit rifle