Keeping zero after removing barrel with tang sight

[Texas Hunter]

Howdy folks,
I've been lurking around here for awhile reading and learning. I thought I might ask the traditional muzzleloading gurus a question.
I have a TC Hawken in .54 caliber with a Lyman tang sight. A problem that I have is every time I remove the barrel for a thorough cleaning after shooting, I lose my zero.
Is there a method that you folks use to ensure that the barrel goes back to the same spot every time after removal?

Thanks!

 

[longcruise]

Had the same problem with a tang sight. Never really figured out a cure but neither did I try! One possibility might be to glass bed the tang and the barrel for six or seven inches in front of the tang. But don't bed the barrel in the first inch in front of the tang.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Never had a sight on the tang of a hooked breach barrel so have no answer other than a simple question. Do you need to remove the barrel for cleaning? Pinned barrel shooters don't.
Walk

 

[yonderin]

How much do you lose your zero by?

 

[Texas Hunter]

Never had a sight on the tang of a hooked breach barrel so have no answer other than a simple question. Do you need to remove the barrel for cleaning? Pinned barrel shooters don't.
Walk

I think cleaning the barrel without removing it might be my best option. Removing the barrel sure makes it easy to scrub without getting the wood wet though.

How much do you lose your zero by?

Quite a bit. Most of the time it's off the paper at 50 yards.

Thanks guys!

 

[Walkingeagle]

I agree that removing the barrel is the best option for a good scouring clean. At least it has been by my experience. I have no real good advice as to tips or tricks to help in cleaning without removing, quite simply because of the patent breech design, but others will soon speak up. Or a forum search will also turn up many threads on barrel cleaning. Just be prepared for roughly 10,000 opinions!
Walk

 

[Griz44Mag]

Something else must be wrong then.
I have 3 guns with tang peeps and hooked breeches.
I do not have issues on any of them removing and replacing the barrels after cleaning.
Does the tang and barrel make up tightly or does it have a lot of slop on it?
Something is not fitting the way it is supposed to.
Is the barrel original to the gun? Has the barrel been replaced by something else? IE - tang receiver does not fit to the barrel hook properly.

 

[yonderin]

Wow! That is pretty substantial movement.

Back when the Canadian army used the FN FAL, some competition shooters wouldn't remove the pivot pin when cleaning their rifle. As the rear sight was mounted on one piece and the front on another, they felt it wouldn't go back together exactly the same and move their zero. Same as your situation suggests.

A lot of movement to explain that way in your case but maybe something is allowing movement. Easiest way to cure that might be to bed the barrel so it always reseats as close to exactly the same every time as possible.

Don't recall that issue with my tang mounted sight.

 

[Mark Herman]

It sounds as though Frizz may have it. I also have several hooked breech rifles with no problem after removing the barrel for cleaning. It sounds as though you have a fit problem. Something is obviously loose.

 

[Texas Hunter]

Thanks folks!

 

[Rifleman1776]

My TC 'hawken poor boy' target rifle goes back to zero after removing. I think it is a matter of consistency in how you remove and replace.

 

[Bad Karma]

I agree that removing the barrel is the best option for a good scouring clean. At least it has been by my experience. I have no real good advice as to tips or tricks to help in cleaning without removing, quite simply because of the patent breech design, but others will soon speak up. Or a forum search will also turn up many threads on barrel cleaning. Just be prepared for roughly 10,000 opinions!
Walk

Will that count the cleaning solutions AND the rust preventatives? Or is it technique only...


If I had that issue, I’d be tempted to glass bed the barrel and tang.

 

[Tumbledown]

If the wood is well oiled inside and out, getting it wet during cleaning shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Don’t oil a wood, that will weaken it and cause decay. Grease is acceptable however when used as a barrier only. Do not use a light grease or oil that will soak into the wood.
Walk

 

[Ontario47]

Does the point of impact (zero) change in elevation or windage, or both? I shoot a T/C Renegade with T/C tang sight (windage will drift when elevation changed if locking set screw is not tightened carefully) but any change after cleaning is more me/weather than the rifle. Something is obviously loose/wrong. If the change in zero is only vertical or horizontal then something is loose in that plane.

 

[longcruise]

Think he meant oil as in finish?

Wax might be an effective barrier.

With the tang and barrel out of the stock, is the fit loose and sloppy?

 

[Tumbledown]

Think he meant oil as in finish?

Wax might be an effective barrier.

With the tang and barrel out of the stock, is the fit loose and sloppy?

Yes, as in finish. Perhaps I should have said well sealed.

 

[OldNo7]

I've had several models of TCs with the TC tang sights installed, and never experienced a significant shift after removing and cleaning the barrels. I would carefully remove the tang from the stock and check it's fit to the barrel. You didn't say if you were off on windage or elevation, but with you knowing that info, you can check for slop in the fit on whether up/down or side-to-side (hopefully not both).

I'm thinking you can make up some thin shims of aluminum or sheet brass (even oiled paper or card stock in a pinch) to take up some of the slop and see if those help.

Also, be sure when you shoot to always keep the ramrod fully seated in its channel. I've seen several TCs that would hit to different points of impact with the ramrod out versus ramrod in; that could contribute to the wandering impact too, especially if its got a sloppy fit at the tang end.

Old No7

 

[Zonie]

Several of my factory made guns have a peep sight mounted on the tang of the rifle and these all have hooked breech, removable barrels. I haven't noticed any problem with the guns maintaining zero after the barrel has been removed and replaced.

Just doing some button poking here, most of these hooked breech guns will locate the barrel within 1/32" or +/- 1/64 inch after they are removed and replaced.

With a 1/64" error to the right or left, when replacing the barrel and if the sights are 29" apart how much would that move the point of impact?
At 50 yards, the error would amount to 1 inch to the left or right.

 

[Rifleman1776]

These are our target rifles. Posted here several times. Both are based on TC stocks, one a Seneca, the other a 'hawken'. Both have Douglas .45 cal. barrels and are highly accurate. I removed barrels frequently when they were used in competition. (not so much anymore due to age and health and a strong preference for flintlocks) No alterations have been made to either stock. But, in both on the bottom channel are a couple small strips of leather. These act to hold the barrel firmly into the stock when the wedges are inserted. I know, this flys in the face of the free floating barrel advocates but it works for me. As for the ramrod issue. The larger rifle is not even equipped to hold a rod, it is strictly a range rifle. One of the thimbles fell off the smaller rifle decades ago and has not been replaced. This has not affected accuracy.