Kentuckian Jager(Italian).45 rifle

[Ramrod]

Interested in a Kentuckian flintlock Jager Rifle (Italian replica ) that was marked .44 cal initially and then over stamped with a .45? Why so? Should I steer away from it?

 

[mooman76]

Just an educated guess but a 45 rifle takes a 44 cal RB. Maybe something to do with it.

 

[Ramrod]

Thanks for that. Would it take a .45 bullet and a .44 round ball?

 

[mooman76]

Yes, if it is in fact a 45

 

[RAEDWALD]

I briefly had an Italian 'Kentuckian' (short) Long Rifle and that was a true 0,44" bore. Terrible lock.

 

[Trot]

I briefly had an Italian 'Kentuckian' (short) Long Rifle and that was a true 0,44" bore. Terrible lock.

I would definitely be more concerned about the lock than the bore size! Some of these were just so bad they could not be made to work.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Interested in a Kentuckian flintlock Jager Rifle (Italian replica ) that was marked .44 cal initially and then over stamped with a .45? Why so? Should I steer away from it?

Bore size is one area that we can all benefit from using available tools to get real information from our gear. One of the best tools is a digital caliper A caliper will measure outside dimension and inside dimension. They are digital so you don't need to interpret arcane markings on the scales. You will need a supply of LR44 button batteries as these get used up fairly quickly. These Calipers (click on the highlighted color) aren't that expensive from Harbor Freight with regular sales and discount coupons. They are accurate enough to measure the bore to about a thousandth or two. Close enough to measure a round ball, bore diameter and patch thickness. Also group size on targets, barrel diameter and they are just a generally useful tool. The results are within tolerance compared to my micrometers.

Once you know the bore diameter across the lands, you can select a ball that is properly undersized to fit your bore and patch.

Should you steer away from it? In general if the bore is clean and rifling good, it will have acceptable accuracy performance on target. Those rifles were made to meet a manufacturing price point. Easy to make a good barrel. Not too hard a manufacturing problem to make a working percussion lock. More of a problem to make a reliable flintlock. Its a more difficult manufacturing process to get the lock parts properly hardened and tempered to get the lock to spark and function smoothly. They can be made to work by diligent lock tuning and polishing of mating parts. Locks built to these entry level price points gave flin tlocks a bad name in the 1970's.

 

[cositrike]

Interested in a Kentuckian flintlock Jager Rifle (Italian replica ) that was marked .44 cal initially and then over stamped with a .45? Why so? Should I steer away from it?

Mine takes a 437 ball and a 15 thou patch. It is very accurate for a cheap little rifle. I did however, have the lock completely rebuilt some years ago to make it reliable

 

[Ramrod]

Great source of knowledge. Love this forum. Thanks for the help

 

[Ramrod]

Bore size is one area that we can all benefit from using available tools to get real information from our gear. One of the best tools is a digital caliper A caliper will measure outside dimension and inside dimension. They are digital so you don't need to interpret arcane markings on the scales. You will need a supply of LR44 button batteries as these get used up fairly quickly. These Calipers (click on the highlighted color) aren't that expensive from Harbor Freight with regular sales and discount coupons. They are accurate enough to measure the bore to about a thousandth or two. Close enough to measure a round ball, bore diameter and patch thickness. Also group size on targets, barrel diameter and they are just a generally useful tool. The results are within tolerance compared to my micrometers.

Once you know the bore diameter across the lands, you can select a ball that is properly undersized to fit your bore and patch.

Should you steer away from it? In general if the bore is clean and rifling good, it will have acceptable accuracy performance on target. Those rifles were made to meet a manufacturing price point. Easy to make a good barrel. Not too hard a manufacturing problem to make a working percussion lock. More of a problem to make a reliable flintlock. Its a more difficult manufacturing process to get the lock parts properly hardened and tempered to get the lock to spark and function smoothly. They can be made to work by diligent lock tuning and polishing of mating parts. Locks built to these entry level price points gave flin tlocks a bad name in the 1970's.

Will check out the lock if problematic and have the bore sized with a micrometer to determine the correct ball and patch combination . The date stamp is AB which is 1976 so your advice is well taken. Thanks again.

 

[Newtire]

I have 2 if those. One is .45 and the other is .50. I use a .480 ball in the .50 with a .015" patch and a .433" ball in the .45. The frizzen surfaces aren't even on their surfaces but I polished them with some 400 grit paper and they both light off the pan and fire the guns now.

Would sure like to find a couple of frizzens for them or find someone to harden these if possible. I like the rifles myself. Any help with the frizzens would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Calvin

 

[Pioneer flinter]

Interested in a Kentuckian flintlock Jager Rifle (Italian replica ) that was marked .44 cal initially and then over stamped with a .45? Why so? Should I steer away from it?

Hey Ramrod I have one of these. It is accurate I use a .433 Diam. Ball with pillow ticking patch. The lock internalls is about the cheapest and cheeseast I have ever seen I had to reheat treat the tumbler. drill and tap for a new **** screw. There is no bridle on the tumbler. I installed a flash hole liners. Now with that being said with the factory stock frizzen, it is the most sparking lock I own. Especially for such a small lock.

 

[Ramrod]

Thanks for the advice. I did purchase the rifle already and it should be here in a day or two. I will follow your guideline for reworking the lock and the touch hole.Looking forward to learning how to manage muzzle loaders on the range with other enthusiasts.
Cheers Neil

 

[Ramrod]

Hey Ramrod I have one of these. It is accurate I use a .433 Diam. Ball with pillow ticking patch. The lock internalls is about the cheapest and cheeseast I have ever seen I had to reheat treat the tumbler. drill and tap for a new **** screw. There is no bridle on the tumbler. I installed a flash hole liners. Now with that being said with the factory stock frizzen, it is the most sparking lock I own. Especially for such a small lock.

Thanks for the info. My Italian Jeager Kentuckian rifle is a .45 . Any idea what the twist is in yours? I am told that 1in 48 and 1 in 66 is common. I hope to be able to shoot patch and ball and the minie as well through it.

 

[Pioneer flinter]

Thanks for the info. My Italian Jeager Kentuckian rifle is a .45 . Any idea what the twist is in yours? I am told that 1in 48 and 1 in 66 is common. I hope to be able to shoot patch and ball and the minie as well through it.

Hey Ramrod all I have shot out of mine is round ball. I have not measured the the twist rate. If I get a chance I will measure mine and get back with you. Pioneer Flinter.

 

[Ramrod]

Thanks Pioneer
I'll put a patch on my jag and see if I can see how much rotation in the ramrod there is from the muzzle until it us fully into the barrel as well.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thanks for that. Would it take a .45 bullet ...,

Maybe..,

The question is, what do you mean when you write ".45 bullet".

You probably understand that if it's a true .45 caliber rifle barrel it will take conical bullets meant to fit a .45 muzzle loading barrel, so my reply is really for anybody who reads this thread in the future and is new to shooting muzzle loaders. So your rifle will likely not take lead .45 bullets from the store meant for modern .45 caliber cartridges, nor all lead bullets cast from molds made to make bullets for .45 caliber cartridges. They will be from .451 to .454 diameter, and just a tad too fat to fit. Not every store clerk will know what you want either if you asked for, "lead .45 caliber bullets", and more often than not would sell you the bullets for .45 cartridge reloading.

LD

 

[Ramrod]

Thanks. There's obviously a lot of factors to consider with black powder and muzzle loading. More variables in play than with modern rifles.