Kibler barrel lug drilling/ relief cuts...

[Daveboone]

Hello all!
When building my Kibler Colonial, I felt I "cobbed " it, in that I was totally unable to make the relief cuts on the barrel pin lugs. I ended up just using the drilled holes figuring I would get back to them....
Now I am preparing to get started on my SMR, and thinking....lets get this figured out first (the relief cuts, that is). I cant be the only one out there cursing those durn things. I obtained a "jewelers saw", and blades, but progress was minimal and it seemed like the hard way of doing things. My brother in law says he could put it on his milling machine and accomplish it, but that seems overkill, and he is busy enough with his own projects.
Are there alternatives to using the jewelers saw? Can they be simply over size drilled slightly and accomplish the same thing? Are there files that small, I havent been able to find? Or dont worry about it at all? I totally understand the potential of the wood swelling/drying, changing the alignment, etc.
Thanks.

 

[painter]

If you drill o/size the barrel won't be held down tight to the channel. I wouldn't do that.

The jeweler's saw is tedious, but it works.

 

[wiscoaster]

Jeweler's saw is best. Well, let me qualify that: jeweler's saw blades. Because I found that futzing with the handle and the blade to get the blade properly positioned, attached and tensioned was more tedious and frustrating than just grabbing the naked blade with my fingers and sawing that way. Those tiny blades are amazingly sharp when they're new, and sawing by hand with just the blade was very effective and didn't take long at all. You can wrap a little tape around the ends of the blade to make it easier to hold.

 

[rich pierce]

Jeweler's saw is best. Well, let me qualify that: jeweler's saw blades. Because I found that futzing with the handle and the blade to get the blade properly positioned, attached and tensioned was more tedious and frustrating than just grabbing the naked blade with my fingers and sawing that way. Those tiny blades are amazingly sharp when they're new, and sawing by hand with just the blade was very effective and didn't take long at all. You can wrap a little tape around the ends of the blade to make it easier to hold.

I just learned something new! Thanks.

 

[ZUG]

For those jewelers saw blades to work at their best they have to be under tension. That is why they are used in conjunction with a spring style frame to hold and apply tension to the blade. I can't see where just using the blade by holding it in your hands is going to be of much use. To my way of thinking there would be a LOT of frustration doing it that way.

 

[tallPercshooter]

I read a research report that concluded that slotting barrel tenons is totally not necessary. They measured things at all temperature extremes and the difference was in the thousandths of an inch. Hard to believe that would impact stock or accuracy. I'm sure the experts will flame me for this opinion.

 

[rich pierce]

I read a research report that concluded that slotting barrel tenons is totally not necessary. They measured things at all temperature extremes and the difference was in the thousandths of an inch. Hard to believe that would impact stock or accuracy. I'm sure the experts will flame me for this opinion.

Feel the burn! Just kidding but most old originals are not slotted and are cracked in the fore end. With the ramrod channel split. Not sure that it’s solely due to not slotting. I agree 100 that very little slotting is needed.

 

[BJHabermehl]

Feel the burn! Just kidding but most old originals are not slotted and are cracked in the fore end. With the ramrod channel split. Not sure that it’s solely due to not slotting. I agree 100 that very little slotting is needed.

It depends a lot on the stability of the pieces of wood. I’ve had soft curly wood that “grew “ 1/16 or more from winter to summer. I had to slot the lugs wider progressing from the rear to the front with the front having the longest slot. Though I never had another move that much since. I also wound up refitting the nose cap, As the fore stock would “ grow” enough that the nose cap would protrude past the muzzle slightly in summer. This gun was a embarrassment as I never had a project return for rework until then. BJH

 

[DCAN]

Just finished this process on my Colonial barrel. I ended up going through 3 blades. After getting the slots where I thought they were good to go I double checked with a section of the pin wire, Discovered there were a couple spots where the wire hung up and wouldn't pass freely. I used a drill bit the same diameter as the wire to remove the high spots. Kind of a "router" setup. Worked like a charm with little effort.
I read later about modifying a hacksaw blade to enlarge the slots. Think I'll give that a try next time.

 

[SDSmlf]

I read a research report that concluded that slotting barrel tenons is totally not necessary. They measured things at all temperature extremes and the difference was in the thousandths of an inch. Hard to believe that would impact stock or accuracy. I'm sure the experts will flame me for this opinion.

Could you maybe share a link to the research report?

What follows I have posted before and is not a research report, just documentation of my experience with one gunstock. Below is a photograph of an unfired, CVA factory made Kentucky Rifle with a two piece stock stored 40 plus years in a humidity controlled environment (Heat/AC plus dehumidifier in the safe). I had assumed that the stock length shrunk over time, but your research report (that I have not seen) says that isn’t possible. If I remove the pins from the assembly the two piece stock easily slides back together (I did provide clearance between the stock and the nose cap which has screws holding it to the barrel), but with the pins in place it’s impossible to close the gap, as the gun was when new. How do I tighten or close up the gap between the two pieces of the stock without the unnecessary slotting of the holes in the tenons the pins pass through? My solution was going to be slotting the holes in the tenons so the stock would free to move over time without opening up a gap between the two pieces. But the report you read says this is not necessary, so what solution do you suggest?

 

[TDM]

Slotting barrel lugs is without a doubt my least favorite thing to do. If or when I have to do it again I’m going to try @wiscoaster ‘s technique.

 

[wiscoaster]

For those jewelers saw blades to work at their best they have to be under tension. That is why they are used in conjunction with a spring style frame to hold and apply tension to the blade. I can't see where just using the blade by holding it in your hands is going to be of much use. To my way of thinking there would be a LOT of frustration doing it that way.

I know. It doesn't make any sense, does it? Regardless, it worked for me. Actually, now that I think about it, if you're holding it on both ends, it is under a certain amount of tension.

 

[Van1955]

I just built a Kibler SMR .40 cal, I just used some side pressure with the drill bit provided. worked like a champ.

 

[rich pierce]

I have some very find point round needle files I use to ovalize pin holes in lugs.

 

[2 shots]

very small bits[ harbor freight] in a dremel tool

 

[SDSmlf]

I have some very find point round needle files I use to ovalize pin holes in lugs.

I prefer using 3/32” pins and have some rat tail files that measure at .083” diameter and work great for cleaning up the slotted holes.

 

[TDM]

Had to go snap a couple of photos, but to smooth and finish a slot I use a tapered, flat needle file. I ground down one side smooth to where it’s less than 1/16”. Then I can work each surface without removing metal from a finished side. I consider the needle files disposable and buy the HF variety.

 

[IanH]

Dremel and a very small diamond burr.

 

[Snooterpup]

For those jewelers saw blades to work at their best they have to be under tension. That is why they are used in conjunction with a spring style frame to hold and apply tension to the blade. I can't see where just using the blade by holding it in your hands is going to be of much use. To my way of thinking there would be a LOT of frustration doing it that way.

Yes, there is right way and the other way.
I could agree with the gentleman that works the saw blade freehand, but then we’d both be wrong.

 

[Snooterpup]

I know. It doesn't make any sense, does it? Regardless, it worked for me. Actually, now that I think about it, if you're holding it on both ends, it is under a certain amount of tension.

I’m under a lot of tension just thinking about not using the tool as designed. But whatever gets it done….”If they don’t find you handsome, they might find you handy.” - Uncle Red

Quando omnes flunkus moriati
“When all else fails, play dead.”