Kibler colonial

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

Well I couldn't help it! Just ordered my first kibler!!! jim had a clearance .58 cal rifled colonial kit in walnut with "less than ideal grain flow" for $245 less than the regular walnut price, even with the thick wrist on the colonial I am slightly concerned about the strength. Now if yall would chime in with any and all opinions/advice/pictures for finishing one of his kits that would be appreciated!

 

[deerstalkert]

very nice looking piece of wood.
first thing i would do is drill from the breach down through the wrist and epoxy a steel rod in place.
that grain just screams "broken wrist". action now will save you grief later.
just my 2 cents

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

very nice looking piece of wood.
first thing i would do is drill from the breach down through the wrist and epoxy a steel rod in place.
that grain just screams "broken wrist". action now will save you grief later.
just my 2 cents

I appreciate the insight! If you were to do this what diameter and length of steel would you use? Ive got a bunch of loose 3/8 and 1/2 all thread from anchoring storage racks at work

 

[deerstalkert]

3/8 would be ok but even a 3/16th or 1/4 would work without removing to much wood. what i do is make a groove in the side of the rod, that way the epoxy wont be forced out of the hole when you insert the rod.
others with better functioning brains will chime in soon.

 

[SDSmlf]

I have a Lyman GPR with similar grain and as @deerstalkert suggests you do, I added reinforcements. I used multiple threaded rods (maybe #8 or #10, whatever was handy) through the tang inlet and trigger mortise bedded in Acraglas.

I drill the holes slightly under the body diameter of the threaded rod so when inserted they form a shallow thread into the stock wood across the grain (forming a full thread in hardwood with a threaded rod can be challenging). I also score a flat on the side of the threaded rod so the epoxy has somewhere to go when you thread the rod into place.

 

[billraby]

Steel rod through the wrist. That is going to break if you don't.

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

I feel this wont be the last time reinforcing the wrist will be suggested so ill just plan on doing something about the wrist. If I understand you gents correctly these are the two methods you are referring to? Either multiple small rods inserted vertically(more or less) throgh the tang and trigger guard inlet. leaveing 1/4"-1/2" of wood at the bottom of the of the hole?
The other being a long rod running parallel with the wrist inserted right behind the breech plug?

Out of both does either pose a significant advantage or is it two roads to the same town?

I will also send an email to mr. kibler and see what he suggests

 

[SDSmlf]

I feel this wont be the last of reinforcement being suggested so ill just plan on doing something about the wrist. If I understand you gents correctly these are the two methods you are referring to? Either multiple small rods inserted vertically(more or less) throgh the tang and trigger guard inlet. Did you drill these all the way through or did you leave a 1/4"-1/2" of wood at the bottom. Of the hole?
The other being a long rod running parallel with the wrist inserted right behind the breech plug?

Out of both does either pose a significant advantage or is it two roads to the same town?

I will also send an email to mr. kibler and see what he suggests

Blind holes (not all the way through). Before retiring I ran a FEA (finite element analysis) with a software program called ANSYS and the multiple smaller rods were significantly stronger than the single larger rod. Here is a photograph of a repair in progress that required about 12” of forearm being replaced on a 100+ year old gunstock using the technique. The gun has been shot well over 1000 high power rounds since the repair without issue.

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

Blind holes (not all the way through). Before retiring I ran a FEA (finite element analysis) with a software program called ANSYS and the multiple smaller rods were significantly stronger than the single larger rod. Here is a photograph of a repair in progress that required about 12” of forearm being replaced on a 100+ year old gunstock using the technique. The gun has been shot well over 1000 high power rounds since the repair without issue.View attachment 296122View attachment 296125

Hey thats pretty neat!!! I was leaning towards the smaller rods anyway so that might just be the direction I go

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

What epoxy do yall use?
Also what are yalls opinions for finishing walnut?

 

[SDSmlf]

What epoxy do yall use?
Also what are yalls opinions for finishing walnut?

I’ll use regular Acraglas if trying get to small cracks or want it to flow easily, or maybe the gel version if visible and I want to dye to match a finish, though Devcon gets a lot of use here.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

The grain in that is rather attractive. For my tastes it calls for a light oil finish to highlight it.

 

[IanH]

I would put a single rod through the wrist. I wouldn't use all-thread rod, but a 3/8" rat tailed file. Most modern rat-tailed files are case hardened and not through-hardened so they don't require annealing, and with a hard case and soft core they are extremely rigid.

The trick to making the epoxy (I would use Acra-Glas gel, nothing else, too many reasons why to list here) get where you need it to is a vent hole. I would drill the hole from the center of the breech plug behind the tang, under the tang and all the way down just to the rear trigger guard tab and drill a small (1/8") vent hole down through the tab to intersect the rod hole. 12" drills are available at most home stores, where you buy an un-handled rat-tail file. Chop the tang end off of the file and use the rest if it isn't too long, terminate it just behind the tang screw hole. Plug the tang screw holes with clay or match sticks wrapped in masking tape so they don't get completely filled with epoxy. Use a smaller dowel to drizzle and butter up the entire hole, coat the file, and slowly insert the file into the hole until it bottoms out. Fill the hole up to the surface with Acra-Glas and plug the vent hole so the epoxy doesn't run out. You will also want to clean out the excess from the trigger guard tab hole or it will have to be re-inlet. Shave back the epoxy so the barrel fits again, clean up the mess, and you're done.

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

The grain in that is rather attractive. For my tastes it calls for a light oil finish to highlight it.

I agree simple oil dinnish. just wanna know everyone's prefered finnish, true oil vs blo? I've heard permalyn sealer is very weather resostant

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

A loaded question around these parts.

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

A loaded question around these parts.
View attachment 296204

Ya I figured! Just curious to hear what everyone's preference/experience is with various products

 

[BillyC]

I’m more than a little surprised that Kibler would sell a kit with a stock everyone seems to think is almost guaranteed to break, even at a discount. Being an absolute rookie at finishing these kits I would be irate if I bought that and the stock did break.

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

I’m more than a little surprised that Kibler would sell a kit with a stock everyone seems to think is almost guaranteed to break, even at a discount. Being an absolute rookie at finishing these kits I would be irate if I bought that and the stock did break.

I dont disagree with you! I thought a lot about that but ultimately the discount was too great. I don't mind throwing a little extra elbow grease or thought into a project. And I thought the same thing, why would he be selling a junk stock with one of his kits? Well he won't. I don't have an insane amount of concern on the strength of the wrist but if an extra half hour to hour of work will take it back to 100%. I'll glady add that hour for nearly 25% off

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

I’m more than a little surprised that Kibler would sell a kit with a stock everyone seems to think is almost guaranteed to break, even at a discount. Being an absolute rookie at finishing these kits I would be irate if I bought that and the stock did break.

I've bought enough of those B-grade kits to know or at least have some faith that if they thought it was structurally unsound, they wouldn't have sold it. Any faults and sometimes repairs with the wood in those discounted kits are listed and usually shown in the pic when listed.

 

[¡Señor.Casualidad!]

I would put a single rod through the wrist. I wouldn't use all-thread rod, but a 3/8" rat tailed file. Most modern rat-tailed files are case hardened and not through-hardened so they don't require annealing, and with a hard case and soft core they are extremely rigid.

The trick to making the epoxy (I would use Acra-Glas gel, nothing else, too many reasons why to list here) get where you need it to is a vent hole. I would drill the hole from the center of the breech plug behind the tang, under the tang and all the way down just to the rear trigger guard tab and drill a small (1/8") vent hole down through the tab to intersect the rod hole. 12" drills are available at most home stores, where you buy an un-handled rat-tail file. Chop the tang end off of the file and use the rest if it isn't too long, terminate it just behind the tang screw hole. Plug the tang screw holes with clay or match sticks wrapped in masking tape so they don't get completely filled with epoxy. Use a smaller dowel to drizzle and butter up the entire hole, coat the file, and slowly insert the file into the hole until it bottoms out. Fill the hole up to the surface with Acra-Glas and plug the vent hole so the epoxy doesn't run out. You will also want to clean out the excess from the trigger guard tab hole or it will have to be re-inlet. Shave back the epoxy so the barrel fits again, clean up the mess, and you're done.

That's more votes for one long rod than multiple short ones!
I appreciate all the input guys, I'm sure it'll be a week or two before it even shows up so I've got plenty of time to finalize my plan of action. If anyone has more pictures of one of these repairs being performed please post them!