The 16 gauge variant has a thin barrel. It is not as rigid as the 20. If attempting to use the 16 for round ball accuracy is probably going to be poor.
Kibler Fowler vs Trade Gun
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Exactly. I've a .58 smooth for round ball so when I get around to ordering one of these it'll be the 16ga to be used with shot loads only.
For those interested you might want to check out our recent youtube video discussing the historical context of these fowling guns we are selling. Seems there is generally some misunderstanding regarding trade guns, fowlers etc. Much of this is simply because of products available today and names assigned, but all this is much less distinct and subtle.
I ordered one in 16 bore, walnut stock!
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I will echo Rich here. Northwest trade gun kits or trade gun kits in general are not the easiest kits for a beginner skill set.
The Kibler Fowler will be much easier to build.
I have to agree.
Surface mounting the butt plate and the trigger guard on an English
Indian trade gun is the easy part. Inletting the octagon to round barrel after soldering on the barrel lugs and front sight takes some time.
The other inletting and stock finishing of course would be the same for other precarved kits.
The Kibler fowler kit is far easier.
Full disclosure I just brought home a "ready to ship" 16 gauge cherry Kibler fowler kit even though I own many other smooth bores. It is just well done!
Oh yes, I live fire .62 round balls out of my modified Miroku 1766 now 1728 model; .69 balls out my custom British long land musket; and .62 round ball out of my L. Day Dutch fowler with very good accuracy at 50 yards.
I'm not concerned with being able to complete a trade gun kit. I feel confident I can do it. At some point I gotta give it a go. These skills will die off if we don't continue to learn them and pass them on, rather than take the easy way out all the time. I can't argue with Jim's kits, they are simply amazing. What he's done for us is second to none. I guess I just need to get them both. Lawd hammercy, I need a support group and another job! 
That is and has been my point for a long time. Kibler kits are great..! The best out their. .. But I like many others like to challenge ourselves in something more difficult..! You learn..at least I do from making mistakes and fixing them. But to each their own..!
Just so you know, other options will result in a significantly lower quality final product. It’s not just how complete products are.
Maybe or Maybe not...!
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I think most difficult part of a trade gun kit for people is staying true to a patterns of lesser quality. For example some trade guns don’t call for inletting a trigger guard or side plate but many choose to. Those that choose to would likely be happier with a Fowler
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Would you like to understand why? I’d be happy to help.
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Jim Kibler you don't have to explain nothing. Been into Muzzleloaders for 50 + years. CNC machines sense they became all the rage. Spent 39 years in a machine shop and 25 of that in quality control.
You have an excellent product. Its just not for me..!
But because some of us just like to make our own stuff. That seems to concern you a great deal.. Oh well...
You have an excellent product. Its just not for me..!
But because some of us just like to make our own stuff. That seems to concern you a great deal.. Oh well...
I don’t really care if you like our products, I just value accurate information.
I made the comment that our kits are better quality than other offerings and will finish into a better gun.
You said maybe or maybe not. I am prepared to support my statement as to why this is true. If you already understand, there is no need for me to explain.
I made the comment that our kits are better quality than other offerings and will finish into a better gun.
You said maybe or maybe not. I am prepared to support my statement as to why this is true. If you already understand, there is no need for me to explain.
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For the few trade guns I’ve made, the most challenging part for me was getting the tang screw on that 45 degree angle through the arm pit of the trigger guard threaded into the barrel tang. I followed the patterns i had, the owner actually thought i had made a mistake and was displeased with it because the tang screw head does not lay flush, counter sunk or counter bored. This is where many folks do not appreciate the originality of a cheaper trade gun. They were cheap, made with less material, no entry pipe, no trigger plate, no nose cap, less screws etc.
We don’t often consider that small amounts of brass, screw stock and pin stock was very expensive in the 18th century. It’s completely understandable as to why they abandoned these features to lower the prices of their guns.
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Jim with all due respect, better "quality" and a "better gun" how exactly? Because it it carved? Cut on a CNC machine? Is the Walnut or Maple better? Is a fowler aesthetically more pleasing? Sure, that is the case. But in this instance none of that is important to me and some others. I'm not trying to put you on blast or am I trying to down play what you do, your business, or products. I have your Woodsrunner, it is an amazing rifle and I love it very much. I also understand of course you have to defend and promote your products here and again, I'm glad you do and I'm glad you are here. You are a great benefit for this community. But I don't see how your point of being better quality or a better gun stands up here. Are Rice Barrels profiled off of an original barrel not a quality barrel? Are Chambers locks suddenly crap?
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Jim, is the European terminology ‘guns of the trade’, the same meaning as trade gun ? Such as a northwest trade gun?
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