Kibler Hawken update,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Grenadier1758]

I thought the original Hawkens were Flintlock action ?

The only verifiable early Hawken flint lock was the Pennsylvania style rifle built by Sam Hawken in Xenia, Ohio. There were perhaps some documentations that their father built flint lock rifles and maybe some flint lock rifles built by brothers that remained in Maryland.

Certainly, the Hawken brothers were capable of building a flint lock rifle. There is no evidence that any of the Plains Rifles were anything but percussion. There are several J&S Hawken Plains rifles that have converted flint locks to percussion, but the stock architecture is for the converted percussion lock. No cut out for the flint cock to stop on the lock plate. The Ashley rifle built around 1825 may have been a flint lock, but there is no documentation of its lock configuration. In the famous newspaper article, Sam mentions that they built a rifle for Ashley and mentions caliber (62) but not much in other details.

 

[longcruise]

Exactly….in these last 50 years since I received my “authentic” replica Hawken from Green River Rifle Works…I must have heard every minute detail argued, dissected, minced rehashed, refried, revisited…blah blah blah…..it has become tedious listening to the “experts” pontificate, speculate and dismiss….yeah I’m mocking self appointed authority.

I kinda agree with that. I've heard and read so much about exactly what makes it a Hawken that I'm pretty much willing to accept just about anything as authentic.

There's a story, alleged to be true, that a couple guys built a "Hawken" and presented it to Baird for his consideration and he pronounced it authentic.

 

[Patched]

I kinda agree with that. I've heard and read so much about exactly what makes it a Hawken that I'm pretty much willing to accept just about anything as authentic.

There's a story, alleged to be true, that a couple guys built a "Hawken" and presented it to Baird for his consideration and he pronounced it authentic.

Poor John….(I read every Buckskin Report, his books and talked to him at the gunshows in Reno when he’d show up)
He wanted a Hawken to be the gravitational center of the western fur trade universe…”a 1818 Jake flinter was about to surface any minute”…that would prove it was THEE gun of the rendezvous mountain man.

But Hawken guns were more gold rush era western expansion….Baird eventually learned he was an aficionado and that there were actually historical research methods and credentials when accessing artifactual significance…I heard that he got spoofed similarly to your story.

Baird certainly contributed to the inflated significance of the famous St Louis rifle…in the 70s 80s Hawken everywhere craze.

James Forsyth’s book from 1850 touted sporting rifles similar to a Hawken for English sporting and safari purposes….1800 in England, mass production with interchangeable parts was starting up as was rifled muskets…patent breeches, halfstocks with ribbed barrels , cap ignition and conical bullets soon followed.
Hawken rifles were somewhat frontier mock ups of quality English gun innovations…Henrys and Tryon were widely available for fur trade mountain men at half the price…

 

[Frontstuffer070]

Yawn, Some of this makes me tired. I'm buying a well researched Rifle KIT that will look the part, MADE IN THE USA by a Small business that a VERY good Gun Smith started up with his family. The quality of the end result is going to be fantastic! A rifle that will serve me well, feed me well, and serve my Son well later on down the road. I'm sure whatever Kit Jim offers is going to be as close as he can possibly make it.

 

[longcruise]

Yawn, Some of this makes me tired. I'm buying a well researched Rifle KIT that will look the part, MADE IN THE USA by a Small business that a VERY good Gun Smith started up with his family. The quality of the end result is going to be fantastic! A rifle that will serve me well, feed me well, and serve my Son well later on down the road. I'm sure whatever Kit Jim offers is going to be as close as he can possibly make it.

You are absolutely 100% right on. These topics can end up going off on many tangents but nothing here should be taken as relating to the quality and desireability of Kiblers products.

 

[sturmkatze]

So is the consensus that the original Hawkens had what finish on the metal?

There’s no consensus. None.

 

[beardedhorse]

Hot charcoal blue is where charcoal is inside the bore and the barrel buried in a trough surrounded by charcoal. It is ignited and the heat gives it the color. Earlier Hawkens including that of Christian Jake and Sam 's father were flintlick. See The Gunsmith of Greenville County for color photo of a flintlock Hawken.

 

[Kmcmichael]

No problem, my fault, and I can see where it could have been misconstrued.

I do agree the rust blued and it is my favorite finish for metal. I’ve only finished one gun like that and it came out great.
I would like to see some testing to see if it is more rust resistant than browning.

Hot charcoal blue is where charcoal is inside the bore and the barrel buried in a trough surrounded by charcoal. It is ignited and the heat gives it the color. Earlier Hawkens including that of Christian Jake and Sam 's father were flintlick. See The Gunsmith of Greenville County for color photo of a flintlock Hawken.

Thanks, another question, this seems identical to color case hardening. Is there a difference?