Kibler Hawken update,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Just why then were original Hawkens rifled 1:48?
Cuz they hadn’t yet figured out that 1:66 or 1:72 worked so much better…and because that’s what we all are told…”all Hawkens have 1:48 barrels”

I certainly wouldn’t put the 80-100 hour of labor in building a “scratch” gun around a 1:48 twist round ball barrel…or mimic the graceless stock architecture of 90% of the known Hawken rifles…just so I could own an authentically lousy handling mediocre shooter…I trust Kibler to make the proper design tweaks for a great gun…and be authentic enough.
 
Ok I like some others posting here don't have a dog in this nitpicking feud. Jim and I have butted heads on several posts on our forum, but I do give him credit for finding a nitch market that he can fill. It just doesn't appeal to my taste in rifles. all of this controversy is because he has decided to call it a Hawken, maybe he should call it what he mentioned several times in his y-tube video a Sporting rifle and as such that is what I see when I look at his images of it. It also fits better into this category with its lighter weight and smaller calibers. Or else call it a Plains rifle in my opinion

By the way good luck Jim and best success with it
 
Ok I like some others posting here don't have a dog in this nitpicking feud. Jim and I have butted heads on several posts on our forum, but I do give him credit for finding a nitch market that he can fill. It just doesn't appeal to my taste in rifles. all of this controversy is because he has decided to call it a Hawken, maybe he should call it what he mentioned several times in his y-tube video a Sporting rifle and as such that is what I see when I look at his images of it. It also fits better into this category with its lighter weight and smaller calibers. Or else call it a Plains rifle in my opinion

By the way good luck Jim and best success with it
There is no “controversy”…some people’s qualifying check list is longer than others to get Hawken moniker approval….

Maybe we should elect a Hawken czar to declare what’s Hawken and he could hand out certificates of authenticity to guns that qualify….there’s an idea.
 
I really hope he offers it with a 1-66 twist.

I have always felt the 1-48 was a compromise that would shoot balls are bullets but did neither as well as a barrel designed for a particular round
Probably not likely. The vast majority of actual Hawkens were 1-48 and used round ball. Depth of rifling has a lot to do with patched round ball accuracy in a 28-34” barrel in my opinion. We’ll have to wait and see. You bring up an very interesting point though. I’d like to see an accuracy comparison between 1-66 and 1-48 in a 32” barrel with the same rifling depth.
 
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Most Hawkens are different from each other. Hawkens were made over a long period by several different gunsmiths.
By deductive reasoning, there IS no template for what "makes a Hawken".


There may not be a template, but "deductive reasoning" or not, if you study Hawken rifles long enough, you'll know one if you see one.
 
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That goes without saying. But you did anyway.

My logic is addressing all the naysayers that are saying that if ONE feature (that is variable) is not present in the new kit, it's "not a Hawken". They are wrong. I wasn't asking what your answer is implying, on "how do I know what a Hawken is?" I DO know, started looking at them and shooting one of the replicas in about 1978.
 
I love this thread.
I can only speak for me.
Jim Kibler knows his tihs!
He will give us a quality kit.
I trust him in his designs, quality, and his customer service.
When it's released I will buy one,assemble, shoot, and hunt with o e fine rifle. He said 1850s style Hawken with his flare. We folks ask about it, and I know they will. I'll tell them this came from a Jim Kibler kit designed after an 1850s Hawken with Jim's touch add to it. Then I'll tell I could assemble one for a small price or You can just do it yourself because his are that easy to assemble.

Again thanks To the Kibler Longrifle Family.

Take Care Stay Safe
GSM
 
There may not have been a template, but there was a pattern or a school of architecture that even with differences between individual rifles, one would be able to tell the difference between a J & S Hawken, an S Hawken or J P Gemmer rifle, but they would all be recognizable as Hawkens.
Now that's logical. Thank you kindly for simplifying a long and tedious subject that's already been done to death that I just didn't have the time or energy to do myself. :thumb:
 
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There may not have been a template, but there was a pattern or a school of architecture that even with differences between individual rifles, one would be able to tell the difference between a J & S Hawken, an S Hawken or J P Gemmer rifle, but they would all be recognizable as Hawkens.
Ive got the books' Hawken Rifle' and' 15 years in the Hawken lode ' by J D Biard all parceled ready to post to the US any takers ? not myself being a Hawken fan I had them sorted for Ettery but he came by these books by an old friends' gift . PM me if interested ,
Rudyard
 
I love this thread.
I can only speak for me.
Jim Kibler knows his tihs!
He will give us a quality kit.
I trust him in his designs, quality, and his customer service.
When it's released I will buy one,assemble, shoot, and hunt with o e fine rifle. He said 1850s style Hawken with his flare. We folks ask about it, and I know they will. I'll tell them this came from a Jim Kibler kit designed after an 1850s Hawken with Jim's touch add to it. Then I'll tell I could assemble one for a small price or You can just do it yourself because his are that easy to assemble.

Again thanks To the Kibler Longrifle Family.

Take Care Stay Safe
GSM
Indeed! Regardless of what it is called it will be an ideal big game rifle for North America in the larger bores. Namely 54 and 58. It will be caplock which the majority of ml shooters today prefer. I expect it will be reasonably priced and of a quality above it's price point. Gonna be a ton of them sold and a bunch of matches won and animals killed. In 25 years they will be sought after in used state.

If you think his first three are revolutionary just watch this one.
 
Indeed! Regardless of what it is called it will be an ideal big game rifle for North America in the larger bores. Namely 54 and 58. It will be caplock which the majority of ml shooters today prefer. I expect it will be reasonably priced and of a quality above it's price point. Gonna be a ton of them sold and a bunch of matches won and animals killed. In 25 years they will be sought after in used state.

If you think his first three are revolutionary just watch this one.
PSST this will be his 5th model: SMR, Colonial, WR, Fowler, now Hawken - but wooohooooooooo
 
Indeed! Regardless of what it is called it will be an ideal big game rifle for North America in the larger bores. Namely 54 and 58. It will be caplock which the majority of ml shooters today prefer. I expect it will be reasonably priced and of a quality above it's price point. Gonna be a ton of them sold and a bunch of matches won and animals killed. In 25 years they will be sought after in used state.

If you think his first three are revolutionary just watch this one.
Will he supply the Horse & cart to move these monsters ?or will here will be special wards in hospitals for Metal fatigue cases. last gun ide carry would be any heavy gun in big country & Ive coverered a lot in Canada & here in NZ.
Rudyard not a Hawken fan
 
PSST this will be his 5th model: SMR, Colonial, WR, Fowler, now Hawken - but wooohooooooooo
Good catch. I just didn't do all that well in the 1st grade.
Will he supply the Horse & cart to move these monsters ?or will here will be special wards in hospitals for Metal fatigue cases. last gun ide carry would be any heavy gun in big country & Ive coverered a lot in Canada & here in NZ.
Rudyard not a Hawken fan
This is just my math and guesstimating but I think a 54 and 58 will probably weigh in similar to a GPR.
 
Ok I like some others posting here don't have a dog in this nitpicking feud. Jim and I have butted heads on several posts on our forum, but I do give him credit for finding a nitch market that he can fill. It just doesn't appeal to my taste in rifles. all of this controversy is because he has decided to call it a Hawken, maybe he should call it what he mentioned several times in his y-tube video a Sporting rifle and as such that is what I see when I look at his images of it. It also fits better into this category with its lighter weight and smaller calibers. Or else call it a Plains rifle in my opinion

By the way good luck Jim and best success with it
Good thinking ............ Rudyard
 
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Indeed! Regardless of what it is called it will be an ideal big game rifle for North America in the larger bores. Namely 54 and 58. It will be caplock which the majority of ml shooters today prefer. I expect it will be reasonably priced and of a quality above it's price point. Gonna be a ton of them sold and a bunch of matches won and animals killed. In 25 years they will be sought after in used state.

If you think his first three are revolutionary just watch this one.
Right on Cruiser 👍
 
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