Kibler Hawken?

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I am interested to learn mire about this!

Why a .62 caliber? I thought that the originals came in a range of calibers but most were in the .50-54 range. Is there a specific example in this size that makes it more desirable than a .54? Or is it just because this would be the lightest version? Thanks in advance for your responses!

Well in my case I already have a 50, 54, 58 and a 62 (smoothbore Kibler fowler) That .600 round ball just wallops deer but surprising doesn't do a bunch of damage to meat. I think a 62 rifle would be great and a short barreled hawken style would be perfect for it. Plus as you mentioned yes it would be lighter too. And man would it give ya an advantage at cutting lines in match play (providing they aren't using half the ball rule) but huge advantage on cutting playing cards, breaking toothpicks, cutting a feather in half, splitting ball on axe blade etc etc. AND OF COURSE THE COOLNESS FACTOR TOO.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don’t know how they refer to this rifle…(usually by some owners name)
Lots of flintlockesque holes on the lock plate and a drum.View attachment 376481View attachment 376482 I didn’t really wanna go down specific Hawken feature rabbit holes…I only want to point out the wide variety of individual features and varying looks of a “Hawken”….Drop at the heel, for instance is 3” to 4” that really changes the look and feel of a rifle…

What Kibler goes with we can only speculate…but stock drop, trigger guard and method of attachment, breech appearance etc can be a very wide range….until the Sam rifles with the slant breech and signature scroll guard etc…1848 gold rush guns is what I call em.

The lock is clearly converted from flint to percussion. The stock has the architecture of a percussion. There is no cut out for the cock to stop on the lock flat that is required for a flint stock.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I would like him to make a lighter "small game" version of it sometime.

I've seen a Gemmer rifle that fits the lighter small game version of the Hawken brothers' plains rifle. It is a 45 caliber rifle proportioned to the smaller caliber.

 

[Patched]

I would like him to make a lighter "small game" version of it sometime.

41 cal S Hawken

Circa 1850-60….41 cal… the homesteaders special for when the Buffalo and the induns are gone.

 

[timetraveler]

41 cal S HawkenView attachment 376535View attachment 376536View attachment 376537
Circa 1850-60….41 cal… the homesteaders special for when the Buffalo and the induns are gone.

Beautiful

 

[yellowhammer]

Concerning Hawken weight; @Patched , Somewhere in one of these diaries: [ LINK ] there is an eyewitness account of the appearance of a string of fur trappers on the move, and he describes each man balancing his rifle across the pommel of his saddle "to ease his burden". I thought it was Osborne Russell's diary, but I cant find it now and too lazy to look for it. I thought this was interesting vis-a-vis most modern artwork depicting the trapper riding along with his rifle across his arm.

Anyway, my point being that for the Rocky Mt fur trade the trend did not seem to view a heavier gun as such a liability as, say, an Eastern farmer/hunter in the same time frame in the Appalachians carrying on foot. Hence the heavier surviving examples we see now.

I have seen numerous examples of repair plates added to the underside of the forestock; conjecture is this fixed wear done by the pommel?

 

[yellowhammer]

Add to my above post. I think also those guys were also just genetically a stronger breed of cat. They could wield a 14 pound gun like a high school majorette twirling a baton. We've degraded physically since those demanding times.

 

[oreclan]

With the 200th anniversary of the first rondevoux it would make sense that he would introduce a Hawken style rifle.

I have two .62’s, a full stock and a half. Both tapered barrels. Both handle great and hit hard.

Were Hawkens present at the first "rondevoux?"

 

[Gum Slough Muzzleloader]

Add to my above post. I think also those guys were also just genetically a stronger breed of cat. They could wield a 14 pound gun like a high school majorette twirling a baton. We've degraded physically since those demanding times.

True very true

 

[longcruise]

Were Hawkens present at the first "rondevoux?"

Good question but probably only answered speculatively. If shop was set up in 1820 it would seem likely.

 

[Zapadach]

I want a Hawken!

I want a Hawken too!!

Me too!!!

But…not if it weighs as much as a real Hawken!!

I will never understand this mentality.

When the Viking hands a battle sword to the Arab in the 13th Warrior, the Arab says : " I cannot lift this !" The Viking says " Grow stronger !" That is very good advice.

 

[yellowhammer]

I would like him to make a lighter "small game" version of it sometime.

@Boomerang
@Grenadier1758

There are surviving examples of smaller Hawkens, smaller as in caliber and weight. Remember this famous rifle found in an attic: [ LINK ] ? It created quite a stir.

My hope would be that Jim Kibler at least considered these smaller rifles in his product development studies. But, the market "demands what it demands", so I doubt the final commercial product will be anything but a big caliber buffalo/bear rifle on the heavy end of the spectrum.

 

[Boomerang]

@Boomerang
@Grenadier1758

There are surviving examples of smaller Hawkens, smaller as in caliber and weight. Remember this famous rifle found in an attic: [ LINK ] ? It created quite a stir.

View attachment 376567

My hope would be that Jim Kibler at least considered these smaller rifles in his product development studies. But, the market "demands what it demands", so I doubt the final commercial product will be anything but a big caliber buffalo/bear rifle on the heavy end of the spectrum.

Ya maybe after the sales slow down on the bigun', he will scale it down to a "squirrel Rifle"!

 

[longcruise]

Ya maybe after the sales slow down on the bigun', he will scale it down to a "squirrel Rifle"!

Or maybe do a slim half stock Ohio style.

 

[FishDFly]

@Boomerang
@Grenadier1758

There are surviving examples of smaller Hawkens, smaller as in caliber and weight. Remember this famous rifle found in an attic: [ LINK ] ? It created quite a stir.

View attachment 376567

My hope would be that Jim Kibler at least considered these smaller rifles in his product development studies. But, the market "demands what it demands", so I doubt the final commercial product will be anything but a big caliber buffalo/bear rifle on the heavy end of the spectrum.

He is an astute business man and will provide what he deems best.

 

[yellowhammer]

He is an astute business man and will provide what he deems best.

Absolutely; I couldn't agree more

 

[springfield art]

.54 would be a sweet spot...

 

[Gum Slough Muzzleloader]

.54 would be a sweet spot...

That's what I'm hoping for.

 

[FlaminCrow]

After 40 yrs of enjoying front loaders, I still have much to learn. Other than a few books at the library and a few educational discussions/arguments around the fire at rendezvous, there are large gaps that I recently started filling with the internet. Yes, I stay under that rock more often than I crawl out, just prefer it that way.
Percussion caps didn’t make their way to the Midwest until 1830+\- . The rifles we consider Hawken began production in the 20s, wouldn’t it stand to reason that there were flintlocks?

 

[Patched]

Concerning Hawken weight; @Patched , Somewhere in one of these diaries: [ LINK ] there is an eyewitness account of the appearance of a string of fur trappers on the move, and he describes each man balancing his rifle across the pommel of his saddle "to ease his burden". I thought it was Osborne Russell's diary, but I cant find it now and too lazy to look for it. I thought this was interesting vis-a-vis most modern artwork depicting the trapper riding along with his rifle across his arm.

Anyway, my point being that for the Rocky Mt fur trade the trend did not seem to view a heavier gun as such a liability as, say, an Eastern farmer/hunter in the same time frame in the Appalachians carrying on foot. Hence the heavier surviving examples we see now.

I have seen numerous examples of repair plates added to the underside of the forestock; conjecture is this fixed wear done by the pommel?

I totally agree with your assessment…Osborne Russel or Francis Parkman gave detailed descriptions…. I live in Nevada and have packed several of my 36” barreled Hawkeny Plains rifles in my youth 30s and never gave it a thought…these guns didn’t get heavy until I crossed the 50s barrier…who turned up the gravity intensity dial?

A man’s gun , I assume, was the difference between life and death in those mountains and plains…a sturdy reinforced wrist and heavier barrel was weighty insurance against a bad horse wreck or a double charge in some excited moment of danger….people were tough and strong cuz they had to be.