Kinda-Newbie looking for advice!

[Big_Al]

Looks like a great site for opinions and info!

My first foray into muzzleloading was last fall. Being mainly a trad archery hunter, I am mostly turned off by firearms in general, and scoped in-lines do absolutely nothing for me. However, my father's 45 cal. Kentucky rifle had always intrigued me, so last fall I broke down and took it out for our week-long season.

The whole "back to basics" concept really hooked me, much as trad archery had completely ruined me with compounds. After I had lurked on here for a while, I found out how to shoot the thing pretty darn accurately. I barely missed a nice buck during last year's season (my hunting partner took a shot immediately after with a scoped in-line and dropped the buck), and I've been itchign to do it again this year.

After more lurking here, I decided on a Lyman Deerstalker in .54 cal. I also got it in left hand, myself being left handed. Shots here in my area of V are rarely over 100 yards, and I figure the .54 should pack a whallop in that range. Also, the MUCH shorter length of the Deerstalker should make for easier handling, as I'm somewhat "vertically challenged" and the Kentucky rifle I took last year was as tall as I am.

I have both 0.530 round balls and TC maxi-hunters for ammo. The patches I have are 0.015. From what I could tell from lurking here for so long this is a good place to start. I have two cans of Elephant FFG to start with; it seemed to perform well in the Kentucky rifle last year. I plan to try and stick with TC Wonder Lube for patch lube and overall gun protection. The gun came with a bottle of Butch's bore shine.

I haven't hit the range with the Deerstalker yet. So far all I've done is wipe everything down well with Wonder Lube. I figure a brand new rifle is the best way to start, seeing as how that way I'll know exactly how it's been cleaned and taken care of.

So, all that being said, what kind of advice/opinions can all you fellas give me? Any and all advice is appreciated!

 

[bucktales]

Big Al,
First welcome to the forum.
Looks like you found the right place and did your homework.
The only thing that I would change for now is your choice of powder. From what I have read here and from my experience ,there are better brands such as Goex, Swiss, Wano, etc. I would ditch the Elephant.

 

[Ohio Joe]

First off, welcome to the world of muzzleloading Big Al! :hatsoff:

It would seem you have the bases covered. The only thing I would suggest is that if you did not clean the bore of that new rifle with an alcohol based cleaner, (scrub it good), I would suggest doing so. Also do the same with the inside of the lock, perhaps using a tooth brush.

Other then that, head to the range and zero that puppy in! :thumbsup:

 

[tx50cal]

Welcome. First let me say that the Lyman is an excellent firearm. When they are shipped the factory puts in a thick coat of rust protectant in the bore. It must be removed or you will have problems loading later as it becomes baked on. I was given advise to clean the bore with brake parts cleaner when I got mine. This stuff works and the protectant ran out looking like coffee. Just spray it real good from the muzzle end and let it run out of the nipple hole. I used a whole can just to make sure it was all out. You should like the way that the rifle performs for you. Good luck to you.
Rob

 

[bigdatab]

Big Al welcome, I have a deerstalker as well and just in case you are unaware, because it has a hooked breech.(for easy barrel removal) it has a powder chamber that is of a smaller size than the bore itself. You need to get in there to clean as well. If you slide a smaller rod down inside the barrel you'll feel the lip. I think it's around 3/8 in dia. I think if memory serves me .30 cal mops and such will get in there. Mine shoots real good.

 

[jbullard1]

Welcome to the forum
A Word Of Caution About The Brake Cleaner
Do Not Get It On The Stock :nono:
It will dissolve a lot of finishes and plastic items
Very good for getting gunk and crud off metal but it attacks certain plastics with vigor
I think the Lyman is a great way to make whitesmoke and get hooked on it
jerry

 

[Headhunter]

Big Al, You will never be the same again.

You did good and you will love it.

All I can say is start shooting and read all you can on the best forum in the world for the Traditonal Muzzleloading firearms.

The Muzzleloading Forum!

Headhunter

 

[paulvallandigham]

Big Al: Welcome to the forum, and I am so glad that you have stopped " Lurking "! Its a bad habit, but understandable.

Take the advice already given and clean that barrel out well with an alcohol based cleaner. Get down into that powder chamber, and into the flash hole, and flash chamber. Remove the nipple, and use a pipe cleaner to do this. You will be amazed at the amount of congealed oil and crud that collects there.

Get some GOEX powder, or Wano, or Schuetzen, or even the more expensive Swiss brand powder. Elephant powder has a terrible reputation for being much more dirty, and not as powerful.

Try working on loads with just that PRB. A RB in .54 weighs about 230 grains, and is more than adequate to kill deer. You don't need to be shooting the conicals, for deer. Same them for bear, or moose. Start with 70 grains of FFg powder and work up to 90 grains, to see what feels good to your shoulder, and what load is the most accurate. You can make adjustments in powder charges in 5 grain increments, so this is not going to take you that long.

Spend the time at the range NOW, to get used to that gun. And be prepared to use some kind of rest to fire the gun at a deer when you do take it hunting. Aim small, miss small. Its not much different than shooting a Traditional bow. You need to spend the time shooting the gun at the range( you can load the gun down to 35 grains for 25 yd target shooting) to get used to its balance, the trigger pull weight, the feel of the gun when putting it to your shoulder, and the sights.

Have a successful hunt this year.

 

[feyx0006]

I learned a lot from these guys :hatsoff: (with success to show for it), and I will say this. It really does seem to take between 100-200 shots to get the rifle broken in. Maybe that elephant stuff would be good to use up on the front end before you can rely on your gun more. Then I must agree with the recommendation to switch to real powder. The handling properties are wonderful.

Regarding projectiles, I have been getting excellent results at 100 yds w/ the Maxi Hunters (after the gun started to settle in). I'm still working on good 100 yd results w/ patched round balls (despite excellent 50yd results), so I am not much help there.

 

[Big_Al]

I ran some WL coated patches through the bore and I did get a brown-crud type stuff on them. I guess the next stop will be to Advance Auto for a can of brake cleaner.

I know how to get the nipple off, but what is the allen screw in the nipple block for?

Also, how does one go about removing the lock from the stock?

I just called the only place in my area that carries real black powder and they said that what they are carrying is called "Graff". Is that a pretty good brand of powder? I couldn't find anything on the net about it. Also, the stuff I have now is FFG - is that what's mostly recommended for .54 cal?

 

[tx50cal]

The allen screw in for the cleanout. You should remove it and put never seize on it if you ever want to remove it again. They seem to seize up after a while.
The lock is held in with a screw on the oppisite side , just remove and pull the lock out, make sure the lock is not a full cock though.If it seems stuck in the stock just thread the screw back in a few turns and gently tape the screw to help the lock out.Be carefull not to mar the new stock.
I have heard that Graf powder in just a private label for swiss powder, I have no experience with it though. Hope this helps you out.
Rob

 

[PreglerD]

Hello from Germany,

Welcome to the forum! You did a very good choice in buying that Lyman Deerstalker. The rifles from Lyman/Investarm are very good and accurate production guns. So try and train as often as you can at the range. For hunting I'll recommend 90 grs WANO PP (FFg), wad, lubed patch and a .535 RB. This load will bring every deer down up to 100 yds. I use this load in my .50 Trad. Deerhunter, .54 Lyman/Investarm Hawken flinter and will use it in my new GPR .54.

Enjoy your hunt or as we in Germany say: "Waidmanns Heil"

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[paulvallandigham]

Graf Powder is the same as Wano, and Schuetzen. It is not Swiss powder. The price is usually lower for buying Graf powder from them, than Goex.Its as good as Goex, although made in Europe. A lot of members use it here, and like it. I am several pounds of Goex away from having to worry about buying more powder. I may order some powder from Graf just to try it.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, don't throw away the Elephant powder.
Yes, it is usually weaker than any of the other brands of black powder.
Yes, it does create more fouling than any other powder.
But, it is real black powder and it will give noticeably quicker and more reliable ignition than any of the new synthetic powders, bar none.

I would suggest that you buy some of the Graff powder and set it aside. Then use the Elephant to break in your gun and to sight it in.
Just be sure to take a cleaning jag, some rubbing alcohol and a lot of 2 X 2 cleaning patches with you so you can wipe the fouling out of the bore every 3-4 shots.

After you've used up your Elephant powder switch to the Graff and then get serious about sighting the gun in. It will probably shoot higher with the better powder.

Welcome to the forum and post often to let us know how your doing.

zonie

 

[Big_Al]

A long time ago I read an article in Guns N Ammo about "traditional muzzleloading". This one artice was the one that really spurred my interest in BP and the main points he touched on in that article have stuck with me until today.

Now I'm sure that a lot has changed since I read the article, so I'll run all the main points I can remember by you guys so I can see what you think:

(1) He opined greatly about the use of "real" black powder. He considered it to be the best propellant available, mainly because of reliability and fast ignition. The thing I remember most was "what do you think powers the ejection seats in fighter planes? It sure isn't pyrodex." He had another reason as well, but I'll touch on that later.

(2) He believed that the round patched ball was the best all around projectile, both for nostalgic reasons and because of the all-around utility of the ball.

(3) The main thing that I remember about this article was his singing the praises of Wonder Lube. He said that wonder lube, when used with real black powder, would not only keep fouling to an absolute minimum but would also make cleaning the bore a lot easier as well. His maintenance was done almost exclusively with Wonder Lube. He used it on all metal parts, and after his bore was clean he gave it a coat of WL too.

(4) He thought that if one were to use wonder lube and real black powder, all that was needed to clean the bore was hot soapy water. He heated his water to a boil in a microwave, then added some dishwashing soap (Joy, I believe) and plunged the barrel thoroughly, adding water and plunging until the water was clear. He then coated the bore with WL until the next range session.

When I took my dad's Kentucky rifle out last year, after the season was over I followed all these steps. The bore had accumulated some rust at the bottom, probably in the powder chamber, but I was able to use a LOT of WL patches/dry patches in sucession until there was no more fouling of any sort on the patches. I then coated the bore thoroughly in WL and put it away.

Today I picked up some brake cleaner, anti-sieze, Tru-Oil for the stock, and a couple of brushes and mops. There were no specific brushes available, so I got what I thought might best work:

(1) For the powder chamber, I got a brush marked .38 cal. I know that the bore diameter of a .38 special is 0.357, so this should work. I figure I can mop the chamber with a slotted patch holder.

(2) for the main bore, I got a 20ga shotgun brush and mop. From what I can tell, they should work pretty well, maybe a bit tight.

I'm gonna try to blast out the bore tonight. Feel free to comment, I'm eating all this stuff up like a kid in a candy store! :bow:

 

[Big_Al]

Well, here's what happened with the whole bore-cleaning project tonight.

When I first got the gun out of the box, I wiped everything down with WL. I also swabbed the bore with WL. When I saw the brown crud stuff, I alternated WL patches and dry patches until I didn't get anything else out on either patch.

The first thing I did tonight was take the gun apart and remove the nipple and cleanout plug. Then I ran a couple of dry patches up and back to remove any WL. I then shot the brake cleaner down the muzzle. It came out clear. I then took the 38 cal. brush and the 20ga brush and scrubbed the bore and chamber out as best I could. I then ran a dry patch down and back, and nothing came out. I then shot the brake cleaner to it again. Again it came out clear. So I dry patched the bore until the patches were dry.

I figured I would get a hell of a lot more of the preservative crud out with the brake cleaner. Since nothing came out, I'll try what the instruction maual said (DUUUUHH!!! :redface: ). I swabbed the bore and chamber really well with Hoppe's #9, and stood it on the muzzle on a paper towel to stand. Tomorrow I'll brush out the bore and chamber, then I may do the brake cleaner again just to get rid of anything the Hoppes may have missed (and the Hoppes itself). If everything is clean, I'll re lube the bore with WL and put the gun back together.

A few questions:

(1) There's no way I could have gotten all the preservative out with WL the first time I swabbed the bore, is there?

(2) Are you guys sure the brake cleaner won't hurt the blackened finish on the barrel? It seemed pretty potent, almost like electronics cleaner on steroids.

Thanks again!

-AL-

 

[tx50cal]

It wont hurt the bluing finish, it will make it appear grayish white where it pulls all of the oil from the surface. I did mine several years a go with absolutaly no problems.sounds like you have things together. The 20 gauge bore brush will not fit a 20 gauge is about a 62 cal. Keep us informed about how it goes. Good luck.
Rob

 

[Zonie]

The brake cleaner may make the barrels finish look lighter but the color will return as soon as some oil gets on it.
If the brake cleaner didn't bring out any preservative then you may have already gotten it with your previous cleaning.

You might want to run a pipe cleaner down thru the hole that connects the bottom of the nipple with the bore. This hole must be clean for the caps flame to get to the powder charge.

I'm not a big fan of Wonder Lube for protecting the bore and prefer to use Sheath but if it is working for you then who am I to say you shouldn't use it?

If you use the bore brush to clean with, be prepared to have it get stuck. They are made for bores that are open on both ends so the bristles can pop back up.
If it becomes stuck, turn the cleaning rod or ramrod in the direction that would tighten it (clockwise) until you can feel the brush start to turn. Then continue turning it and start pulling it back up the bore. This will reverse the bristles and allow it to come back out.

I can tell your having more fun than a kid in a candy store and it only gets better when you start making large clouds of smoke. :grin:
zonie

 

[Big_Al]

Thanks guys, the 20ga brush is made out of flexible plastic bristles so it's pretty easy to get the brush up and down the bore. The swab, however, will not fit. Oh well, I can always just use patches and the ramrod jag to swab out the bore.

 

[jeep.p.s.]

I use WL for patches & bullet lube & it works great for that. I USED to use WL for protecting the barrel.

Last year after hunting season ended I used WL to protect the barrel of my T/C Hawken .50 cal. Stored it away for a couple months till spring. Went to the range & when I got it out & ran a dry patch thru it, I pulled out the nastiest red patch I'd ever seen.

It took ALOT of brushing/mopping/patching cycles to finally get the patches to not come out rusty red. I now use CLP for storage. It may not be traditional but the bore of the gun is more important until I can find something non-petroleum that works.

WL may work for you but just be cautious.