kings mountain rifles

[fleener]

Terry Jack

Where is the monument set at? Did they do that for all the soldiers?

I have at least 3 relatives that fought in that battle as well.

Thanks

Fleener

 

[William O.]

I think we're a bunch of distant cousins!

 

[Armando]

Is the defining cosmetic feature of the Dickert (?) rifle the large brass patchbox?

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

Is the defining cosmetic feature of the Dickert (?) rifle the large brass patchbox?

Early Dickert rifles had many features of later rifles, such as an arched buttplate, the 4 piece patch box, a more slender and shapely butt profile. The sideplate was also of a particular design, with Germanic lock, which was mainly produced in house, though there may be exceptions.

I'm currently researching a dickert build to replicate that era. There is a myth local to our area, (Middle Tennessee) that Sevier, Montgomery, Shelby, Robertson and one other Longhunter, whose name escapes me, bought matching Dickert rifles in 1779, and three of those rifles went to King's mountain.

Of course there is no surviving example, as those 5 bad mama jamas used their rifles up fighting Redcoats, Indians and loyalists, so I am building a mythic rifle to match the myth. Here's an examplar of what those rifles may have looked like.

 

[Terry Jack]

Terry Jack

Where is the monument set at? Did they do that for all the soldiers?

I have at least 3 relatives that fought in that battle as well.

Thanks

Fleener

I am not sure where monument is or if others were set up. My dad told me abut it. My uncle saw it but both of them are dead so can not follow up. I believe there were 4 men in my family on that conflict total. Tried gong to the roster site but kept getting virus alerts.

 

[Terry Jack]

I think we're a bunch of distant cousins!

We could be. Seems like everyone who has family in country back then is related some how

 

[fleener]

https://www.geni.com/projects/Ameri...,William 10 Neeley, Joseph (w) More items...
Terry, scroll down towards the bottom of that page, it has the men listed alphabetically. It shows 4 Jack's in that battle.

Fleener

 

[olskool]

I am not sure where monument is or if others were set up. My dad told me abut it. My uncle saw it but both of them are dead so can not follow up. I believe there were 4 men in my family on that conflict total. Tried gong to the roster site but kept getting virus alerts.

here are the names for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,

• Jack, James
• Jack, James, Captain
• Jack, Jerimiah
• Jack, Patrick (?)

 

[Stophel]

Early Dickert rifles had many features of later rifles, such as an arched buttplate, the 4 piece patch box, a more slender and shapely butt profile. The sideplate was also of a particular design, with Germanic lock, which was mainly produced in house, though there may be exceptions.

I'm currently researching a dickert build to replicate that era. There is a myth local to our area, (Middle Tennessee) that Sevier, Montgomery, Shelby, Robertson and one other Longhunter, whose name escapes me, bought matching Dickert rifles in 1779, and three of those rifles went to King's mountain.

Of course there is no surviving example, as those 5 bad mama jamas used their rifles up fighting Redcoats, Indians and loyalists, so I am building a mythic rifle to match the myth. Here's an examplar of what those rifles may have looked like.View attachment 35482

Personally, I would say this gun is rather later, more like 1790's. For a 1779 era Dickert gun, I would say look more to RCA #48 and 49.

 

[rich pierce]

Yah

 

[Terry Jack]

here are the names for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,

• Jack, James
• Jack, James, Captain
• Jack, Jerimiah
• Jack, Patrick (?)

Thank you. I have it printed out some where however I appreciate you getting these for me.

 

[Terry Jack]

https://www.geni.com/projects/Ameri...,William 10 Neeley, Joseph (w) More items...
Terry, scroll down towards the bottom of that page, it has the men listed alphabetically. It shows 4 Jack's in that battle.

Fleener

Thx, I have the documentation that they are all relatives. I am directly descended from Jeremiah

 

[horsecavalryman]

being a born and life long resident of SC I love the story of the battle of Kings mountain. I plan to go there this fall to the park. what would have been the style and caliber of rifle the over the mountain me"n would have used? dose anybody know what Robert young's rifle "sweet lip" that he used to kill Ferguson with was? is that rife around anywhere,,,,,,,,,,,,

Kings Mountain has a wealth of factual information available today. My recommendation is refer to Ricky Roberts and Bryan Browns" Every Insult and Indignity!" https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9781466255623&i=stripbooks&linkCode=qs. Forensic evidence indicates that some of his Breechloaders were there. If memory serves he (Ferguson) was struck by 7 bullets. He is definitely buried there and has female company. Captured officers were offered parole if they would show how to fire captured arms. I started reading as much as I could prior to building a Ferguson replica in 1978. Correct replica parts sets are now available from The Rifle Shoppe/ OK USA. I currently have a 50cal. Homer Dangler for sale at Track of the Wolf which is very plain which most if not all these Whig rifles would have been. Not the fancy carved/silver wire beauties that got stored in closets and survived. The usin' rifles of Kings Mountain and Danial Morgan were carried used / not abused but worn out by time that war was over. The chance of them surviving is about the same as that of the double barrel flint fowlers that are surviving here in the USA. I'm 72 this month and I've seen one of those. It's stock repaired 4 places, converted to percussion and serving as 12" Street sweeper/ saddle shotgun here in CO. It had Maple stock, 12ga. Thanks for interest in pivotal American History! P.S. all the Whig forces who brought Ferguson to battle were mounted and left their horses with holders.

Links Homer Dangler Cal. 50 Rifle, Siler lock, single set trigger. | Facebook and The Rifle Shoppe, Inc. - British Ferguson Rifle (513)

 

[olskool]

here is an old video of a man explain some facts. poor sound but good info,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[hopping]

Compatriots, I would like to urge you to join the Overmountain Victory Trail Association to help support keeping the story of the March to kings Mountain alive. Membership is only $15. The OVTA brought the story of the March to Kings Mountain to over 18,000 school children and their parents last year. The OVTA pays for the bus driver's salary and the buss's gas so that the 4th, 5th and 8th grade classes can come visit the living history programs that the OVTA puts on while recreating the two week+ march to track down Ferguson and catch him on Kings Mountain. This battle was a major turning point in the Revolution.

The patriots on the march carried what ever rifle they had on their farm. The patriots in that area had not been there for more than 30 to 50 years and they brought rifles from every where they were from. Mostly from down the Old Wagon Trail from Philadelphia. Many were Scotch Irish. Jacob Dickert of Lancaster, Pennsylvania was only one of the hundreds of gunsmiths who made rifles for the frontiersmen. They were long slender rifles averaging 50 caliber. There was at least one Dickert rifle at Kings Mountain that I have seen and held. There were no Ferguson Rifles at Kings Mountain. Major Ferguson set out from Charleston, SC to recruit Loyalists on the Carolina frontier with 300 Charlieville muskets the British captured at Charleston, SC. His 100 New York Provincial troops had the British Short land Service muskets (Brown Bess). The troops he recruited along the way had their own rifles.

Go to Overmountain Victory Trail Association - Home and sign up. Then come and join us on the March, September 22 to October 7. Details are on our Web site. The definitive work on the march and battle is Lyman Draper's "King's Mountain and its Heroes" which you can find on Amazon.

 

[horsecavalryman]

Compatriots, I would like to urge you to join the Overmountain Victory Trail Association to help support keeping the story of the March to kings Mountain alive. Membership is only $15. The OVTA brought the story of the March to Kings Mountain to over 18,000 school children and their parents last year. The OVTA pays for the bus driver's salary and the buss's gas so that the 4th, 5th and 8th grade classes can come visit the living history programs that the OVTA puts on while recreating the two week+ march to track down Ferguson and catch him on Kings Mountain. This battle was a major turning point in the Revolution.

The patriots on the march carried what ever rifle they had on their farm. The patriots in that area had not been there for more than 30 to 50 years and they brought rifles from every where they were from. Mostly from down the Old Wagon Trail from Philadelphia. Many were Scotch Irish. Jacob Dickert of Lancaster, Pennsylvania was only one of the hundreds of gunsmiths who made rifles for the frontiersmen. They were long slender rifles averaging 50 caliber. There was at least one Dickert rifle at Kings Mountain that I have seen and held. There were no Ferguson Rifles at Kings Mountain. Major Ferguson set out from Charleston, SC to recruit Loyalists on the Carolina frontier with 300 Charlieville muskets the British captured at Charleston, SC. His 100 New York Provincial troops had the British Short land Service muskets (Brown Bess). The troops he recruited along the way had their own rifles.

Go to Overmountain Victory Trail Association - Home and sign up. Then come and join us on the March, September 22 to October 7. Details are on our Web site. The definitive work on the march and battle is Lyman Draper's "King's Mountain and its Heroes" which you can find on Amazon.

thanks for mentioning the first source I read during my investigation of Ferguson rifles. Draper mentions the Loyalists driving the Whigs before them down hill with the bayonet and then retiring uphill firing as they went. Ferguson rifles have a most dramatic 30" bayonet and can be fired at a walk. Try that with a musket please, As I recall Draper also recounts a singular loyalist firing from under a wagon (prone) who was found to have a number of balls in his mouth. If you have ever seen Ricky Roberts speed loading demonstrations. He loads his magazine (Mouth) and spits 'em into breech 5 a minute. From "Every Insult!" "When picking up supplies in Charleston, Ferguson ordered the British standard carbine ball ,615 and Double Glazed Rifle Powder for his troops." these are the two mystery ingredients that allow Fergusons to work. Respectfully the presence of Ferguson Breechloaders at Kings Mountain would tend to enhance the luster of the glory of the Over Mountain Men's victory. Your Association is to be admired for it's educational endeavors, Please broaden their education to include a well led and courageous enemy who were in fact all American's as well.

 

[horsecavalryman]

All existing original "Ordinance Ferguson Rifles" in American Museums are 'War Booty' taken back north by Union troops during the American Civil War. If all the rifles were returned to depot in Philadelphia Penn. how were they then captured in the Southern states and returned to the North during the Civil War.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

thanks for mentioning the first source I read during my investigation of Ferguson rifles. Draper mentions the Loyalists driving the Whigs before them down hill with the bayonet and then retiring uphill firing as they went. Ferguson rifles have a most dramatic 30" bayonet and can be fired at a walk. Try that with a musket please, As I recall Draper also recounts a singular loyalist firing from under a wagon (prone) who was found to have a number of balls in his mouth. If you have ever seen Ricky Roberts speed loading demonstrations. He loads his magazine (Mouth) and spits 'em into breech 5 a minute. From "Every Insult!" "When picking up supplies in Charleston, Ferguson ordered the British standard carbine ball ,615 and Double Glazed Rifle Powder for his troops." these are the two mystery ingredients that allow Fergusons to work. Respectfully the presence of Ferguson Breechloaders at Kings Mountain would tend to enhance the luster of the glory of the Over Mountain Men's victory. Your Association is to be admired for it's educational endeavors, Please broaden their education to include a well led and courageous enemy who were in fact all American's as well.

Except there were never any Ferguson rifles at King's mountain, that sounds good.

Major Ferguson was commanding new troops at King's Mountain, and the Ferguson rifles were taken out of service before then.

https://www.obcgs.com/battle-of-kings-mountain/

 

[Wishbone65102]

To add to this discussion, there is a rifle in the Tennessee State Museum that is claimed to be the "Sweet Lips" rifle that was carried by King's Mountain patriot Robert Young (http://www.tn4me.org/images/upload/File/sweetlipsrifle.jpg)
More here: )Sweet Lips)

Not withstanding the above, I have a good friend who will remain nameless so as to not involve him in any controversy, but he is a student of history, and believes that the rifle in the Tennessee Museum is too late of a rifle to have been at the battle at Kings Mountain. He and I have often discussed the fact that artifacts get passed down in families, with lots of stories based on little fact, and he is of the opinion that is what has happened with the rifle in question. He knew of several other instances where an artifact in a museum has been misidentified as to provenance. Some allege this gun is a "Bean" longrifle, but while I have not extensively researched the Bean line of gun-builders and the rifles they built, I believe they for the most part came later in time than the timeframe to have been used at King's Mountain.

Lots of history out there yet to still be researched, and new discoveries make. Appreciate discussions such as this one on this forum.

Wishbone65102

 

[Wishbone65102]

Not so much about the rifles at Kings Mountain, but a really good video telling the "whole" story of what led up to battle, told by Randal Jones, is The American Spirit: 1780 ( )
Wishbone 65012