Kit suggestions

[mccarthy.tf]

Hey everyone,
I am planning my winter project, a flint lock early Pennsylvania rifle. I've built a kit before but I want to do it one better this time. I plan on doing my own inlays and possibly some engraving. Suggestions? I don't want to lay out to much cash on a learning project but I don't want low quality. I will hunt with this weapon.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Ok there is the 2 different TVM shops, Track of the Wolf, Sitting Fox, P-Creek, Knob creek, Jim Chambers, Jedediah Trading Post, ummmm and many many others. They all make decent kits as far are experience goes and money thats up to you Jim Chambers kits are nice guns and most inletting, sights, breeched, are done for you but you need to drill the torch hole, or drum hole. Tenn Vally Muzzleloaders all this is done and they are cheaper but in my experience the wood is lower quality still great company and like I said cheaper. Sitting Fox in Michigan is a decent company to work with just ordered a 54 cal swamp coletrain barrelled early lancaster with super premium wood for $799 an extra hundres they will inlet the lock, trigger, cut and install sights, and underlugs. I'm deployed and it was sent to the old mans house and he sais it looks great and the woods has about a 95 percent curl. Havent built a TOTW gun in a while but other then a tight barrell channel they have been good kits, again you might wanna spend the extra money and have the sights cut, and barrell breeched and lock and trigger inletted, makes it easier and saves alotta time especially for a newbie. Jedediah Trading Post another Michigan based company is solid company too, and they also offer to inlet, all the fun stuff, and cut sights and install lugs. All are pretty close in price other then the Jim Chambers kits which typically run about 100 or so more overall but worth it in the long run and they are great people to work with and guns hold there value but recommend to make it a second gun build. TV Muzzleloaders is a solid easier first build and would prolly be the cheapest overall. Just make sure you pay attention to what locks come on the kits. I know most come with a large siler lock. Also is you want steel versus brass, or even silver the company makes a difference too. Hope this helps I am not biased and build many different guns from different companies, I like and usually only build steel parts on my guns so I jump all over with companies.

 

[geb324]

Don't forget Pecatonica also great kits

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I thought I said then if not I apoligize they are a solid company with a great products as well.

 

Tenn Vally Muzzleloaders all this is done and they are cheaper but in my experience the wood is lower quality still great company and like I said cheaper.

Cheaper as in less expensive, or cheaper as in cheaply done/made?

 

[rootsy]

...a flint lock early Pennsylvania rifle...

Be more specific than the above generality and you will likely receive more detailed opinion.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....and your expectations as to what you think (1) a "kit" should entail and (2) how much you are willing to spend.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[mccarthy.tf]

Thanks for the info! Now I'm busy checking all those companies sites instead of working. :wink:

 

[mccarthy.tf]

I guess I need to do a little more research to be more detailed. I just have this picture in my head that kinda matches what I see from Sitting Foxes "early transition Penn" (Kit K-14).

As far as what I want from a kit. I am comfortable doing inlays and some light carving. I don't want to have to inlet the stock, and lock or drill and tap the barrel.

 

[Zonie]

Just remember. There are "kits" and there are "kits".

The "kits" from the big gun selling companies like Lyman, Traditions, Pedersoli etc are factory production guns that just need some sanding, finishing and a few screws installed.

The "kits" offered by Pecatonica River, TOtW, Chambers etc are really just a box of rough material, all of which will need work.

The only parts that are nearly finished in these kits are the locks, barrel and set triggers and even these will require some work.

What kind of work?
Locating screw holes, drilling and threading them.

Installing the barrel breech plug.

Filing, sanding and polishing the rough sand cast trigger guard, butt plate and often, side plate.

Locating the underbarrel lugs, drilling and installing the pins or wedges.

Locating and finishing the barrel channel in the wood.

Cutting the stock butt, forming it and installing the butt plate.

Finishing the lock mortice and installing the lock.

I could go on but the best description is these "kits" are just a box of rough parts that all will need finishing.

Another way to look at these is the big factory "kits" will require about 25-30 hours to make a nice gun.

The box of rough parts will take at least 130 hours and if one wants a really well made, good looking gun count on at least 170 hours of work.

On the bright side, these 'box of parts' kits are made up of some of the best parts available in the world, almost all of them made in the USA.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Cheap as in price wise over all the quality of the kit is greta and most of the hard work is done for you. But like I said the wood quality I have gotten is a little less then the higher end companies like jim chambers, don't get me wrong you can upgrade the wood from TVM and get a nice gun kit for around 775-825. Note they offer an Iron Pennsylvania rifel kit which is a great gun to build have built two of them. For a starting kit for what you are looking for to get experience do some inletting and carving it might not be a bad idea. Then again so are all the other kits happy looking..

 

[rootsy]

I guess I need to do a little more research to be more detailed. I just have this picture in my head that kinda matches what I see from Sitting Foxes "early transition Penn" (Kit K-14).

As far as what I want from a kit. I am comfortable doing inlays and some light carving. I don't want to have to inlet the stock, and lock or drill and tap the barrel.

You would be happier with Jim Chambers' (flintlocks.com) Christains Spring - Edward Marshall offering. While more expensive you will receive a product that is more historically correct with better / more appropriate components. Service is second to none also.

But if you are not prepared to finish and fit components such as the hardware (fittings, lock, trigger, etc) and you don't wish to finish the inlets (90%,complete already), both size and depth, and shape the roughly shaped stock then you aren't going to want to tackle one of these "kits".

If all you wish to do is slap something together, do a bit of sanding and apply a finish then a Lyman GPR would be the route to go. Even though the ones I have done required at least some fitting of mortices and A LOT of wood removal.

Just the truth as I see it. Get a building reference book or two and study that before going any further. That should help you decide whether you want to tackle a project such as this. Whether it is $600 or $1000, if you aren't capable or don't have the tools and desire then it'll all be for naught.

 

[drboompa]

I am too much of a coward to tackle some of the rough parts in a box projects the first time around. I would be far more comfortable buying a cheap kit from Sportsmanguide.com and seeing how I do on it before spending a lot of money and mess something up. My two cents worth.

 

[DUSTY 14]

several of the mentioned companies sell kits to different levels of completion, all the to IN THE WHITE. means you need to sand the wood a little,blue or brown the metal,etc. can do inlays and decorative work before you stain. pecatonica makes the stocks for many of the other companies,
gets top components from others. good service top knowledge.many others in the same arena. just talk to a few before you buy.

 

[MJMarkey]

I've built kits from TOW, Chambers, and Knob Mtn. Muzzloading. In my opinion they are all good but they all have their plusses and minuses. My best advice to you is get yourself a copy of "The Gunsmith of Grenville County". It's back in print and available at TOW for about $40. It will tell you everything you need to know about building a rifle.

Since your building your own you have a lot of choices to make, school, maker, time frame, wood (fancy or plain), cast pipes and muzzle cap or sheet metal, brass or steel, and on and on. Be aware that a kit still requires a lot of hand inletting for you to do, and sometimes the parts don't work out perfectly where inlets are pre selected. They will function fine but may not look correct. You can assemble your own kit by buying parts and pieces seperatly, most kits are just an assembly of parts anyway, and sometimes their choice is not your choice, either design or quality. You can still get a stock partly shaped with barrel and ramrod drill pre inlet. Usually the lock, sideplate and trigger inlet being pre-inlet can cause problems mainly with alignment with placing vent hole. Most stocks can be gotten with or without lock inlet. I also recommend getting the forestock square, it makes pinning the barrel and RR Pipes easier.

Personally I like wide butt, straight comb, early Lancaster, York. Style rifles with emphasis on 3 or 4 makers.

Unless you're planning on selling the rifle you're building, make it to suit your fancy, you'll enjoy it a lot more. But before you start even planning, Buy the book. Good luck and I hope some of this helps.

 

[Rick G.]

Jim Klein also has very high quality kits. I recently purchased his Berry rifle kit and was pleasantly surprised. Parts are first quality, and a grade 6 curly maple stock is standard. Its 95% inlet and with a long-rifle builders book a novice (like me)should have no major difficulty in its creation..

 

[jdkerstetter]

I don't see where anybody has mentioned Dunlap Woodcrafts yet. Another top shelf "kit" company.
http://www.dunlapwoodcrafts.com/ComponentSets/

Enjoy, J.D.