Knives and wood chisels steel

[WyomingWhitetail]

ok so im finally getting a work room set up and want to start building some stuff (in addition to my muzzleloader project and my other gun projects). Top on my list right now is a small set of wood chisels to work on my muzzleloaders and a couple of knives. I don't have access to a forge any more, use to have one at home but im at college now, so im going to have to file everything into shape. looking for advice on what types of steel people have used with success that i can easily heat treat with a torch and an oven. hope this is an ok place to ask this.

 

[fatboy]

Hi your basic 10 series steel should work just fine like 1060,1070,1084. I have made a few tools out
of new 5160 with good results, There are some that use A2 which is air hardened I have not had the chance to try this. What type torch are planning on using? Google one brick forge to see what you find may be of a benefit to you

 

[LRB]

+1 to what LHunter said, except for the A2. It really needs an oven heat treat with soak times.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

What about O1. Seems like that is one of the top choices for wood chisels but might be slightly more technical to heat treat. Cant seem to find any really good info though. One source says it has to soak at 1500 for 10 and another says to quench right after critical is obtained. I have access to both small propane and large oxy/act torches.

 

[fatboy]

 

[fatboy]

Yeah Wick is right the a2 is going to be more high tech to work with He makes good use of it for his work

 

[LRB]

Naaa, I don't use it. Lonehunter uses it because he was given a large pile of it. A2 makes 01 seem cheaply priced, unless it's free. I like my 01, but no, neither 01 nor A2 is a good steel for simple heat treating. WW, the term critical heat has changed definition over the years. At one time, it mean't non-magnetic to many, and still does to those who don't know better. Critical heat today is mean't to be the ideal heat at which a particular steel is to be quenched at, and the temp required to bring a particular steel to full Austentization, which basicly means that the carbon and alloys have merged into a homogenous solution. This temp varies with different steels. 01, after soaking at critical for 20 minutes, is ready to go at 1475°. A2 after soaking at critical for 30 minutes, or more, is ready for quench at 1700°/1750°. The object being, is to bring the steel to full austentization by heat and time, without causing unwanted grain enlargement, then lock the solution in place by rapid cooling. Yes, you can harden 01, A2, or any carbon steel by getting it above non-magnetic, and then quenching it. The problem is that the carbon and alloys, will not be evenly dispersed, and you will have areas harder and softer than others, and not achieve the maximum potential that the steel offers. To keep life simple, use the 10xx series of steels, but avoid the 1095. It is apart from the rest of the 10's. On the other hand, 1095 as a chisle may work out, but the quench is very critical. To date, there are only three quenches that will give good results as to getting it properly hardened. Brine is #1, but the steel may crack. Parks #50 commercial oil is #2, but expensive, and the steel, if thin, may yet crack. Canola oil is #3, and gives good results. Not the best results, but pretty good. I believe you would find 1084 very ample for your needs, and much easier to heat treat. Canola oil is very good for it also.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

Thanks for the input i really appreciate the help from those who have experience. I made one knife a long time ago made out of file and forged in a branding stove. i will have to look at getting some 1084 and start filing.

 

[cutshurt]

I would like to add that trany fluid works great for me as a quench for the 10x steels.

Darrel

 

[gmarc]

I'm a big fan of O-1 for blades and the heat treat is simple. Even simpler is W-1, which austenitizes at a comapratively low temperature and will harden well in water

It is readily available as drill rod and flat. I would quench in QUENCHING oil if thin sections are involved.

To use other types of oil in quenching is to dilute uniformity of process....take the trouble to get the right stuff

 

[LRB]

01 is simple to HT if you have an oven or salt bath, but not so much using an open forge.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

So what kind of heat treat process would you guys recommend for 1084 (just a simple heat to color then quench then temper in oven at x degrees for y hours ??, and where can i get it. seems that O1 is available everywhere online but i can't seem to find 1084 anywhere.

 

[LRB]

Here is about the best source. Aldos' 1084 is of higher quality than average, it is like super 1084. He has a very high reputation among knifemakers. If he does not have 1084, then 1080 would do just about as well. http://njsteelbaron.com/
As far as the HT, I can tell you how I would do it, but you might ask Aldo when you order it. I think his 1084 has a wee bit of vanadium in it, and if so, he may recommend a little different HT than I would do on it.

 

[fatboy]

Ah Wick my mistake thought you were using A2

 

[gmarc]

Wick:

I have had very predictable results heat treating O-1 with an "igloo" in a gas forge.

This does require some experience in color observation.

 

[LRB]

It all depends on what you are willing to settle for. Usable, good, better, or best.

 

[gmarc]

......you basically get your gas forge to behave like an oven. In my experience, heat treating O-1 is quite simple compared to the higher-alloyed steels. These go in my Paragon kiln.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

i do have a buddy that has a propane fired forge, hes a horseshoer, would that provide stable enough heat to heat treat??

 

[gmarc]

you can readily heat-treat in a gas furnace, provided the furnace is large enough to hold the entire blade

However, placing the knife in a concentrated gas flame is a BAD idea. You want the heat, but not the oxidizing flame. Heat is heat, but the atmosphere in the furnace is of great importance

Industry gets around the oxidation problem in heating by using controlled atmosphere furnaces or molten salt immersion. These methods keep oxidation to a minimum.

In the old days, smiths used to say: "Forge it large and grind it small" as they left forgings meaty to grind away decarburized surfacea and lessen the risk of warping/cracking on quench.

To get around this problem, construct out of kiln shelf and spacers a sort of protective hut,inside the furnace, under which the preheated blade is placed, edge up, spine down.

The best way is to place the knife in and let it come up to temp slowly. Your quenching temps for most simple steels are in the 1475f to 1526f range. Find out in advance which temp is appropriate.

If you can get one, a pyrometer is handy for telling the temp. Magnets are not an accurate gauge, as most steels have curie points lower than their critical temps.

 

If you have access to a propane forge you can heat treat the chisels in it. Just watch your temps and don't overheat the steel. A magnet is a use full tool to help learn to judge your critical temps. When a magnet is no longer attracted to the hot steel your getting close to critical, it takes some practice to do it by eye. I've got my smithy area partially enclosed so I have shade and shadow so I can see the colors better. Different times of day and light conditions can make the colors look different as well. Consistency is the key.

In any event, if you don't have a lot of experience heat treating do a little practicing and even if you don't get it perfectly rite you should get "good enough" to out perform the vast majority of commercial chisels out there. While I hate saying good enough, especially when I go as far out of my way as I do for just a little more performance we all have to start somewhere. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.