Lack of younger shooters?

[Coinneach]

Trust me, even though I am the same age as my peers, I can't help to feel somewhat disconnected from them. I'm not saying I don't any friends, but nobody truly knows about my nerdy hobbies and interests .

And our perverse fetish for 18-19th century dress ups !

 

[Coinneach]

This is definitely one of the most comprehensive posts I've read on this issue (at least in this thread lol). I've done some asking around at my school, and many of my buddies say that they've never even heard of black powder shooting. I think the lack of exposure is the biggest issue here. The only reason I even know muzzleloading is a thing is because I have a keen interest in history.

Just don't let on about our secret Handshake and mystical initiation rites.....

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'm not sure exactly. Patience is something BP shooting requires, but young folks may lack that a bit, as every young generation does.
Movies and such tend to focus more on modern conflicts and weapons. That example may pull young folks to more modern arms.
Add to it that fewer present 40 year olds shoot BP so they aren't encouraging their teenage kids to engage in the activity.
I'm sure the reasons are myriad.
You keep shooting and learning. Take the opportunity to show friends. Soon you'll have your own cluster of BP shooters around you.

Good post, Daryl. Well thought out, and nicely stated. I agree, young people do what their parents allow and encourage them to do. If we want to bring youth into the sport, we need to focus attention on their parents.

@granth , we are glad to have you among us. I wouldn't worry too much about the age difference. Just keep shooting, be safe, and have fun.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[granth]

Good post, Daryl. Well thought out, and nicely stated. I agree, young people do what their parents allow and encourage them to do. If we want to bring youth into the sport, we need to focus attention on their parents.

@granth , we are glad to have you among us. I wouldn't worry too much about the age difference. Just keep shooting, be safe, and have fun.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

I don't mind, it's just interesting to see a hobby dominated by one demographic. It's alien to me because most of my other hobbies cover most age demographics pretty evenly lol.

 

[Huasser1]

Simple fact younger shooters need older shooters to get them started. There just aren't enough older shooters taking the time to get younger shooters involved. Also us older shooters had the movie Jeramiah Johnson to get people interested. We need the movie makers to make a movie where the mountain man shoots his ramrod through the heart of the vampire, and uses his powder horn to blow up the zombies.

Good point OR. I wonder which weapons John Wick would prefer. Make a movie with Keanu killing bad guys with a Hawkins and Bowie. Of course he'd need about 37 other weapons ...

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

It's rare that a person will pick up a sport unless they're exposed to it in a positive way. Shooting isn't really put out there as an enjoyable pursuit anymore, (combination of economic constraints, too many action hero movies/shows/videogames, anti-gunner/statist propaganda, and a modern US shooting culture that has gone off the deep end into tacticool-land (some of it makes Mcdojo's look legit)). and too many current shooters are concerned about "liability" (ignoring the reality that you can be sued by anyone for anything (real or imagined) at anytime) or lack the disposition to teach/share what they do.

Muzzle loading is potentially more dangerous, and appears more complicated than modern arms; and therefore requires little more attention to be paid in order to not send a breech plug/bolt through your skull. It really does require guidance when starting out (even experienced people on this forum shoot their ramrod on occasion). With no one making ML's appear fun or to help people out (that's conveniently available, driving 2 hours or more to a gathering of old men isn't convenient lol), it's hard to get people to believe they can do it (it's like trying to convince people they can build their own guns from scratch... deer-in-headlights-look). I grew up loading ammunition for our modern guns; and from a very young age, I worked with large, dangerous, machines that will kill/maim you if you don't follow all the steps to using them safely, so getting into ML'ing at 15 was easy. Most youth don't have that kind of life-experience, so they need help from experienced people to get started.

It's often socially frowned upon, not a Tik-Tok trend, shoved off in a corner by the shooting industry (not as much $$$ in it), not flashy, not fast, requires you to pay attention, and there's lack of good pop-culture info on it... AKA: something that is very hard to get people in general, but especially younger people, interested in for more than an extra week sitting in a tree (hoping that a deer walks by... that sounds a lot like fishing, I dislike fishing lol).

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

I'd like to teach my kids to shoot black powder. At what age is appropriate to start and would you drop the powder charge to lessen any recoil?

I started shooting when I was 7 (Crossman Air-rifle and dad's/great-grandpa's 1901 Stevens .22 "modern" rifle), was allowed to get into trap shooting and centerfire rifle around 9-10. Started carrying a rile with me on the farm when I was 11 (Remington 512 I found in one of the properties my dad bought, which I restored (got me into gunsmithing). Helped Dad/Grandpa load ammunition from 7 (started out as : hand me that, look at this, here's how you measure things... eventually moved into more of an assembly-line type involvement). Started loading on my own by 13 (once I satisfied my dad that I was going to do things the right way, my younger brother got his privileges revoked for a few years after a batch of 12 ga slug loads turned out to be overcharged due to him not checking the charge weight), and then picked up ML'ing on my own by 15. Started hunting on my own, licenses be damned, when I was 10 (farm-raised pigeons with that air-rifle).

Like with any firearm, teaching people to shoot with lighter recoiling guns (and firearms that they can hold up) is significantly easier than with more recoil. It limits the number of bad, hard to shake habits that form related to that. It has to be fun, otherwise, why would any child want to pursue it, especially when there are so many other "options" today. Plus, reducing the powder charge makes those early misses less expensive ... or should we say: you get more repetitions in on the same $.

"We have guns around, and you're going to be around guns; so you need to know how to handle them safely and use them properly"- Dad.

(after shooting a groundhog with same .22) "that little gun made a mess of him, that's why you need to be careful with what you're shooting at"- also my Dad (when I was 5-6, I was his loader if a family of groundhogs were out)

(on following instructions and steps to the "T") (we had accidentally mown up a couple bunnies with the discbine, he stopped to show me (6-7yr old I think)) "That is why you take the tractor out of gear and turn off the PTO before you get off and work on anything, machines don't care what they're cutting"- Dad (important when learning to load on your own) (ironically, I was riding on the fender at the time lol, but the bine was off to the right, and I was always on the left fender, and ear-pro wasn't a thing with farming until I introduced it to him when I was 17, so IDK lol)

 

[Eterry]

I got my first BB Gun at 5, built my first muzzleloader in 8th grade shop class at 14. Was hunting at age 5, small game. My dad hunted, so did the WWI Vet who lived with us. He was hunting into his mid 80s.

There was no internet, phones were forbidden unless it ŕang on the wall. We were too poor to afford non-essential items. There was no cable, no pay-per-view, so we made our own fun and had plenty of chores to keep us busy.
So no where near as many distractions for a youngster as today.

I bought my nephew a wood stock Daisy Red Ryder when he was 10, (something my folks couldn't afford, I got a Sears special BB gun). The next time I went to visit I was devastated to see it laying in the rain on a trash heap. He claimed it was broken; his brother said he had thrown it up there.

A few years later He wanted to go deer hunting. I took him to the range, started with a 22, worked up to a centerfire. He did ok. He later took 2 deer at pistol range under my supervision and help. My best friend and I dressed and packaged both deer. I included about a dozen of my favorite recipes for his parents.

On my next visit I asked how he liked the deer meat. Again, I got 2 stories. He said the upright freezer was accidentally left open and the meat was ruined. His brother said his mom threw it out cause she didn't like it.

His younger brother (16) went to the range with me and after shooting said he wanted to go hunting. I asked why? He said he wanted to kill something. I vowed to never take him unless his reasons change.

It's hard to get excited about taking them in the woods. They are both chasing girls, so I probably won't be bothered by them for a while.

Where I grew up guns were a tool to be used, and for defense. But mainly for food and protecting livestock. Today many own a gun to use as a toy at the range, and self defense.

Yes I think more kids should be introduced to shooting sports. But right now I guess I'm not the guy for the job. I'm still burned out from my families attitude towards it.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

Yes I think more kids should be introduced to shooting sports. But right now I guess I'm not the guy for the job. I'm still burned out from my families attitude towards it.

Sometimes, I look at some of the people I'm surrounded by (including more removed family) and feel like their afflicted with a sickness of some sort. Like a psychological-necrotizing-fasciitis of sorts, perhaps (maybe that's a bit harsh, but you get my point)? I feel your pain there. It's a cultural thing, when your entire world glorifies violence for the sake of violence, aesthetics for the sake of aesthetics, morals/sense-of-self determined by the majority, and neatly-packaged/bloodless meat; it's hard not to fall into it, and it's infectious.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

Too many kids convinced that a GLOCK 9 is the only way to go.

 

[ohio ramrod]

How many of us who have posted on this topic have taken a "youngster" out shooting black powder in the last year?

 

[RonRC]

I've had the opportunity to take college-age students to both black and smokeless powder ranges. Until I retired, I was on the faculty of a more conservative-leaning engineering university. In class, I would use photos of my black powder firearms as demonstrations of the industrial development of metals and alloys and the changing demands from mining. Now and again, I would get some after-class questions about my black powder shooting. After carefully evaluating the students who showed interest, I would invite them along to a local, outdoor range. Once they tried it, they wanted to do it more. Even a South African student went to the range with me and now shoots black powder in his home country.
On the other hand, I started a shooting club at the university. We didn't last a year before the school attornies became concerned about liability and shut us down.
I've offered to do a presentation on traditional muzzle loaders to local boy scout troops. They never have taken me up on my offer.
Here is the South African student:

 

[Loja man]

I think this guy is a little younger than the average!

 

[DixieTexian]

How many of us who have posted on this topic have taken a "youngster" out shooting black powder in the last year?

I have three kids five and under. I barely have time to get out myself. However last fall I had to shoot my .50 pistol to unload it after riding around the inlaws' place on the mule and the two year old seemed mighty impressed.

 

[david w]

Hello, everyone. I posted a similar topic in the Member's only forum and I think it would get more traction here. So I am 16, and I have noticed the lack of young shooters in this sport. I'm relatively new, but so far I have had a blast. I've observed that the majority of BP shooters are in the older demographic. Why do you think this is?

I'm glad you're interested in something other than a smart phone. Too many youth are too into video games and texting. My great nephews are welcome in my house, but they can't put the darn things down long enough to have a conversation. I guess they don't realize it's rude. I hope you keep up the sport, young man!

 

[Coinneach]

It's rare that a person will pick up a sport unless they're exposed to it in a positive way. Shooting isn't really put out there as an enjoyable pursuit anymore, (combination of economic constraints, too many action hero movies/shows/videogames, anti-gunner/statist propaganda, and a modern US shooting culture that has gone off the deep end into tacticool-land (some of it makes Mcdojo's look legit)). and too many current shooters are concerned about "liability" (ignoring the reality that you can be sued by anyone for anything (real or imagined) at anytime) or lack the disposition to teach/share what they do.

Muzzle loading is potentially more dangerous, and appears more complicated than modern arms; and therefore requires little more attention to be paid in order to not send a breech plug/bolt through your skull. It really does require guidance when starting out (even experienced people on this forum shoot their ramrod on occasion). With no one making ML's appear fun or to help people out (that's conveniently available, driving 2 hours or more to a gathering of old men isn't convenient lol), it's hard to get people to believe they can do it (it's like trying to convince people they can build their own guns from scratch... deer-in-headlights-look). I grew up loading ammunition for our modern guns; and from a very young age, I worked with large, dangerous, machines that will kill/maim you if you don't follow all the steps to using them safely, so getting into ML'ing at 15 was easy. Most youth don't have that kind of life-experience, so they need help from experienced people to get started.

It's often socially frowned upon, not a Tik-Tok trend, shoved off in a corner by the shooting industry (not as much $$$ in it), not flashy, not fast, requires you to pay attention, and there's lack of good pop-culture info on it... AKA: something that is very hard to get people in general, but especially younger people, interested in for more than an extra week sitting in a tree (hoping that a deer walks by... that sounds a lot like fishing, I dislike fishing lol).

Hard to believe that you enjoy Gurns, but dislike Fishin.......

 

[dave951]

...................
I've offered to do a presentation on traditional muzzle loaders to local boy scout troops. They never have taken me up on my offer.

We work with Scouts quite a bit. The key here is not to contact an individual troop but to work with the summer camp muzzleloading program. That means you need to get in touch with the local council headquarters and from there the Shooting Sports Committee and from there the local camp. As a result, you'll get kids that are already in the "Mountain Man" type of program and they already have an interest in muzzleloading. From that point, it's up to you to put together an interesting and fun program and course of fire. The issue with most summer camps, and this is exactly why you can make the most of your efforts there, is that they are strapped for funds and staff and that equals a need to be filled. First you MUST be a certified NRA Muzzleloading Instructor. Without that paper, you will not work in nearly any youth programs. Second, if you can wrangle donations of powder, caps, shot and maybe some guns, you're gold to the camp nearest you. We work with Camp Raven Knob in the Mountain Man program. We go up one day per week while camp is in session to run the actual live fire part of that program. To supplement the camp craptastic plastic guns, we bring a range of traditional black powder and muzzleloading guns for the Scouts to see, handle and (if ok in BSA policy) actually shoot. Our normal load out includes, Civil War arms, Hawkins, longrifles, various flintlocks, and some black powder cartridge guns, for example I bring an original 1869 Rolling Block. We have the kids shoot PRB, conicals and minies. Once they've tried each, then it's what does the kid want to shoot and let's work on marksmanship with that gun. You want the program to be fun, informative, and leave them wanting more.

We're currently working to get more instructors certified and will work with probably 3 camps this summer. I won't sugar coat this, it's work, but it's a very enjoyable type of work.

One of our instructors doing a brief history lesson just prior to the fun starting on the firing line.

Once the kids understand the loading process, then start to refine sight picture, sight alignment and overall marksmanship.

Yet another sight alignment/sight picture discussion.

Part of my load out when going to a camp. L to R- 1842 Macon 69cal smoothbore, 1858 Smith 50cal, 1863 Sharps 54cal, and 1862 Colt Contract 58cal. Not pictured are the rest of the guns I carry with me- 3 "Zouaves" for the kids to shoot, a couple of traditional style 50cal roundball guns, and my original 1869 Roller. Make no mistake here, the kids love handling and hearing about these and it all goes into introducing a new black powder shooter to the sport.

 

[RonRC]

We work with Scouts quite a bit. The key here is not to contact an individual troop but to work with the summer camp muzzleloading program. That means you need to get in touch with the local council headquarters and from there the Shooting Sports Committee and from there the local camp. As a result, you'll get kids that are already in the "Mountain Man" type of program and they already have an interest in muzzleloading. From that point, it's up to you to put together an interesting and fun program and course of fire. The issue with most summer camps, and this is exactly why you can make the most of your efforts there, is that they are strapped for funds and staff and that equals a need to be filled. First you MUST be a certified NRA Muzzleloading Instructor. Without that paper, you will not work in nearly any youth programs. Second, if you can wrangle donations of powder, caps, shot and maybe some guns, you're gold to the camp nearest you. We work with Camp Raven Knob in the Mountain Man program. We go up one day per week while camp is in session to run the actual live fire part of that program. To supplement the camp craptastic plastic guns, we bring a range of traditional black powder and muzzleloading guns for the Scouts to see, handle and (if ok in BSA policy) actually shoot. Our normal load out includes, Civil War arms, Hawkins, longrifles, various flintlocks, and some black powder cartridge guns, for example I bring an original 1869 Rolling Block. We have the kids shoot PRB, conicals and minies. Once they've tried each, then it's what does the kid want to shoot and let's work on marksmanship with that gun. You want the program to be fun, informative, and leave them wanting more.

We're currently working to get more instructors certified and will work with probably 3 camps this summer. I won't sugar coat this, it's work, but it's a very enjoyable type of work.

One of our instructors doing a brief history lesson just prior to the fun starting on the firing line.
View attachment 136885


Once the kids understand the loading process, then start to refine sight picture, sight alignment and overall marksmanship.
View attachment 136886


Yet another sight alignment/sight picture discussion.
View attachment 136887

Part of my load out when going to a camp. L to R- 1842 Macon 69cal smoothbore, 1858 Smith 50cal, 1863 Sharps 54cal, and 1862 Colt Contract 58cal. Not pictured are the rest of the guns I carry with me- 3 "Zouaves" for the kids to shoot, a couple of traditional style 50cal roundball guns, and my original 1869 Roller. Make no mistake here, the kids love handling and hearing about these and it all goes into introducing a new black powder shooter to the sport.
View attachment 136888

That is very helpful! Thank you for the information.

 

[SirFrancis]

I’m in my 30s, been interested in the idea of shooting muzzleloaders since I was a kid, my parents didn’t shoot, themselves, but they weren’t anti gun and neither were any of my classmates parents, or the teachers. (Looking back this is kind of a miracle.) My parents read me old books, like James Fenimore Cooper, books about prospecting in the west, Indians and buffalo, revolutionary war, etc.

Most of my acquaintances who shoot, got inspired to own guns based on movies and video games, so of course they want to own the gun of James Bond, or the pistol from Lethal Weapon, or the rifle from Counter-Strike, one that looks like the ones in Black Hawk Down, etc.

 

[Huasser1]

Hard to believe that you enjoy Gurns, but dislike Fishin.......

Cool movie