Landed an original 3-band Enfield

[Mulebrain]

Thank you for the great close up pics. I think your heading in the right direction. How are you doing your cleaning?

I will say the using the electricity to do any de-rusting will not harm good bluing, but where any rust has happened, it leaves a nice black patina on the metal.

I think that would look better than in the white IMHO.

I really enjoy threads like this!

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Thank you for the great close up pics. I think your heading in the right direction. How are you doing your cleaning?

I will say the using the electricity to do any de-rusting will not harm good bluing, but where any rust has happened, it leaves a nice black patina on the metal.

I think that would look better than in the white IMHO.

I really enjoy threads like this!

Mule Brain, I agree, the pics are great, however I do have to disagree with your statement about using electricty to clean the rust, the bluing on the P53 is a rust blue and it will be removed by the electrical process you are talking about - avoid it in this case.

Heatseeker64, you are doing well, patience is what it takes.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Nice gun. Regarding the barrel, you might want to consider having a barrel liner installed. That would save the outside appearance of the barrel, while putting a modern steel liner with perfect bore in it to allow you to safely shoot the gun, provided there are no other safety issues concerning the bolster and nipple. We lined an original Springfield Trapdoor that had a barrel that was way oversized, and you can't see where the barrel/liner seam is at all. The gun now shoots great.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Paul, good suggestion for a worn or reamed out to smooth barrel but in his original post he stated that the bore "appears unfired".

 

[paulvallandigham]

I understand. But I have seen " unfired " barrels that were full of pits, that in turn were filled with years of lead, and dust and grease dried in them so that a simple patch down the barrel only helped to conceal the true condition of the barrel. Its hard to believe that a barrel that looks that bad on the outside had its inside cared for.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

As long as the bore is consistent (true diameter breech to muzzle) and the rifling is sharp, especially at the muzzle, then relining is not necessary. A polished, pristine bore is not necessary for excellent accuracy - minor pitting, if present, is not a problem and does not make it difficult to clean (use water, it will clean corrosive salts out of any pits), the gun should shoot just fine if it is close to what he describes. Heatseeker64, slug the bore to find the true diameter of your bore and get Minie balls that fit closely and you will do fine. It will be necessary to remove the breechplug to do this but for a shooter that is almost a forgone conclusion. Have it done by a qualified gunsmith if you have never done it, P53 plugs are well done and TIGHT. :shocked2:

 

[Heatseeker64]

Well, the three-bander's slowly getting back together ... as much as the end result will be "flawed" from a condition point of view, the rifle will be a great shooter, and the whole clean up process has been a great learning experience about preservation and the various foibles of old Enfields.

The nipple was well-and-truly stuck and I dropped the barrel up to the smith's last week. He rang Friday to say the job was done and I'll pick it up tomorrow.

Yesterday a mate dropped around and I got the benefits of him standing around while an old pro pulled down his Snider Enfield. I never would have figured out there was a pin through the stock hold the trigger guard in, and there was no way I was going to try removing it.

Well, if five minutes flat the trigger guard was out and so was the trigger shortly thereafter - all without blemishing anything.

I scrubbed the trigger guard and tigger housing with a mix of water, dishwashing detergent and lemon juice along with the other brass bits on the stock and they came up a treat.

As with the other internals, the trigger mechanism was excellent but the trigger ended up with what antique spruikers euphemistically call "a pleasing patina" ... but let's cut the ********, they are rust stains!

I dropped the trigger and guard in, and the screws - which I had laid out in the order they came out in when I cleaned them up - even went back in to their slotted position!

Next came the lock, which cleaned up beautifully. Mechanically, it's perfect and there is minimal pitting and an ... ummmmm ... "pleasing patina" left. I noticed that the CRC spray that stayed on the lock caused some rust to leech from the stock during test fitting, so I'll need to lift the lock out periodically and wipe it down.

Now all the mechanisms are back in the stock, there's a gaping hole where the barrel should be, which should be filled this week, by which time the bands will be cleaned up.

Watch this space ...

 

[Heatseeker64]

Dare I say it, I reckon the project's come good:

The bore's actually quite decent, and I reckon she'll be making loud smoky noises after a century of silence:

Sure, she ain't perfect:

But she's looking a lot better than she was:

It has been a really rewarding project, and I learnt a bit on a few levels:

Regards the tang marking, this rifle was definitely issued to a Soldier of the Queen - CL stands for The Cornwall Regiment, 32nd Regiment of Foot:

 

[Heatseeker64]

Well, I've gone and lit her up!

Took the 3-bander to the range yesterday with the intention of blowing the cobwebs out before working some more on the bore.

Turned out that after a rudimentary clean the bore was quite decent, although there was some insigificant surface rust in the lands.

Let rip with the first shot with 50 grains of 3G and a 550grain traditional minnie.

After checking for any cracks or stress, I loaded up a 90 grain "battle" load, which the old warhorse handled no problems.

Loading was no problem, but I gove the bore a scrub after a bit of grinding on the way down after eight shots.

After a final clean, we dropped a torch down the barrel again and the bore looked beautiful with no visible pitting and all the rust blown away.

I gave the bore another soak with white vinegar for a few hours before putting a few patches down and there was still some brown stuff, which I assume is rust that seeped in at the base of the barrel through the nipple.

At the end of the day, this rifle won't be a regular shooter. But it is an intact first type three band Enfield, and there is some satisfaction in looking at it hanging on my wall that it is not just an ornament.

 

[jdstrang]

In my neck of this sport one of the first questions that comes up with a new gun is, What are you using for lube? Mixing your own, or using a commercial preparation?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Heatseeker64, you did a BEAUTIFUL job, the rifle looks great! Saw your pics on the British Militaria Forums and I was as amazed as others to see that the trigger guard is brass, I should have known better but it didn't look like it in the first pics. May you have a lifetime of satisfaction and enjoyment out of her.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Congratulations! I am glad to see you got the gun into working order, and it seems to function well.

You should be able to remove the rust from the nipple area, and flash channel by removing the nipple, and then working the flash channel with a pipe cleaner and some rust remover. That will eliminate the brown stuff coming out of the flash channel in the future to spoil the gun.

It surely is nice to see an old warrior like that being fired again. With good care, there is no reason why it can't give you good service for a lifetime, and be ready to pass on to someone else.

 

[Heatseeker64]

Heatseeker64, you did a BEAUTIFUL job, the rifle looks great! Saw your pics on the British Militaria Forums and I was as amazed as others to see that the trigger guard is brass, I should have known better but it didn't look like it in the first pics.

I'm confused ... I thought all three-band Enfield trigger guards were brass.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

No, you are not confused, you are right. By it's appearance in the original post it looked like rusted iron and the fact that all were brass just escaped me. You did a beautiful job.

 

[skeet]

I'm jeoulous!!
Thanks for sharing the pics, it looks great!

 

[shortbow]

You done real good. :thumbsup:

 

[Heatseeker64]

Got a few more bits to complete the picture - a socket bayonet and original ram rod. I'm just waiting on a front and rear swivel and snap cap I ordered from Britain to arrive in the mail:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Heatseeker, that is a beautiful weapon! Congatulations! And a good job of restoring it to shooting condition.
:thumbsup:
I see that it is a Pryse & Redman. Definitely a Birmingham gun. I don't have much info on that company other than the fact that they imported quite a few rifles and rifle-muskets to the US during the War. Of course we can see by the buttplate markings and the Broad Arrow marks that it was issued to the Queen's troops. But a lot did find their way here. I also saw the barrel maker's signature and the Birmingham storehouse markings. You are truly blessed to have a piece with so many legible markings.

One question. Does this gun have a 3 groove or a 5 groove barrel? I've been told that Pryse and Redman guns normally have 5 groove rifling. If this one is a 3 groove, that would mean they varied in their procedures.

 

[Heatseeker64]

Well she's up where she belongs ON THE BLOODY WALL!

Since the three-bander's more than 100 years old and doesn't fire a metallic cartridge, I can legally hang it on my wall here in Australia, so I will, out of principle.

A quote from George Orwell evokes my sentiments:

The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.

George Orwell,
The Tribune,
London, 1941.

 

[billandbeaufort]

Not wanting to start a political talk but I am curious as to why you say "since it is over 100 years old and doesn't fire metalic cartriges I can hang it on the wall" Do you mean that if it were a new gun you couldn't? Gun laws are getting crazy around the world and I guess they will here also. Read about the woman on the commercial flight in New Zealand yesterday, stabbed two pilots in hijack attempt! Now if only those Kiwis would outlaw knifes we'd all be safe. B&B P.S. Both of my 1864 Springfields are on the wall :thumbsup: