Lapping the Barrel with JB bore Paste

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
In my almost 40 years of shooting Muzzies, I have only seen three things that foul a barrel so bad a second shot is hard to load without wiping: A rusty bore, a pitted bore, and rough-cut grooves with chatter marks. All three tend to hold on to fouling. The only thing I’ve seen a new barrel do is cut patches, both shooting and cleaning. I’m in a quandary.

I know Wheeler makes a Lapping kit with three grits: 220, 320 & 600. I just bought one for another project. In the meantime, a kid in our club shot his guns and unbeknown to us, didn’t clean them until right before the next match. He was plagued with misfires and hard-to-load problems. A bore light proved them to be rusted. One member volunteered to lap the bores with Valve Grinding Compound. I’m told there are different grits, but most stores only carry one made by Permatex. I wasn’t totally happy with the results, so I used J-B Bore Cleaning Compound which I thought might be finer than the Permatex. Next, I used toothpaste and followed up with 0000 Steel Wool. Each step was 100 strokes. I used water on the patches with the Bore Cleaner and toothpaste. I used Hoppe’s #9 for the steel wool. The patch material was taken from an old pair of jeans and held up very well. The bores look brand new.

Now let’s talk about patch/ball combos. My experience with a thin patch (.010) is they won’t hold up to a heavy powder charge without some sort of wad or backup patch. I like a tight combo. In rifles with deep grooves, oversized balls (.445, .595, .535, etc.), and thick patches. My preference is Pillow Ticking which is usually .017 to .018. It’s Sturdy and has a nice solid weave which acts as a great gas seal.

According to Dixie’s catalog, the Lyman (Investarm) GPR has 5 Lands and Grooves and .010 deep “Cut” rifling. That means it should be able to handle a thick patch.

I know I haven’t really answered your question so far. Here’s my suggestion. Since you have done the research and found a video with the same problem on the same model gun, I’d try the Scotch Brite method. You can purchase them at the Dollar Store. I’ve done this before and they’re thick. I started with a smaller jag, then moved to a bigger one, then bigger again. When I did a 50-cal, I used something like a 40-cal jag, then a 45, and then the 50. It flattens out a bit at a time. I’ve put them on a 50-cal jag and punched through the center just trying to get it in the muzzle. So, I do it in steps. Mike makes it seem much easier on his video!

Part of the fun in this sport is experimentation. It can be frustrating at times. Like when I’m sighting in a new ML at 13 yards and get fantastic groups, bench rested. Then move it out to 25 and they’re all over the place and all I changed was the distance!

Wishing you much success!

Walt
 
My question was had anybody used JB to lap a barrel or in this case to polish out the micro-burs .
JB paste is sold as a bore cleaning paste and not near as aggressive as valve grinding compound as others have mentioned, which I would not suggest.

You have already used the JB paste and maybe it will help next time you shoot, maybe not. If not, you might reconsider trying the Scotch-Brite. I started using it after speaking to Don Getz (Getz Barrel) years ago before he passed, and he recommended using the green (600 grit) Scotch-Brite for smoothing up barrels that were cutting patches. Said it wouldn’t hurt the barrel. May not cure your issue, but won’t hurt.

There are many other options, but this is an easy place to start, and as your OP stated you considered, but didn’t try, because you didn’t have any Scotch-Brite to work with.
I watched the polishing video with Scotch Brite pads and that seemed easy enough . However I didn't have any but I did have some JB bore paste.
 
I just read the back of my Permatex Valve Grinding Compound (part #80036). It states that it's made up of four grits (120, 150, 180, & 220). As it works, it breaks down until all that's left is the finest grit.

I still think J-B is finer but will reach out to Brownells and see what they have to say.

Walt
 
I have a supply of 600X Alundum that I used on a .54 barrel that showed flash rust in the first 6 inches from the muzzle. The scotch brite cleaned it out quite well and I then made a gray paste of the 600X and bore butter, using this worked into a patch for fire lapping. Fifteen shots later and swabbing between shots left a mirror like bore that loaded like greased glass and shoots beautifully.
 
JB is made from volcanic pumice, won't cut steel. The red pad squares are the way to go. I have done four GPR since watching duelist video. Two out of the rifles took 100+. I turn my 1" square patches after 25 strokes. You will be amazed at what comes out of your barrel. I can shoot a whole match with just swabbing the barrel with a spit patch. Possible exception might be month of August. Extreme humidity will cause a real mess if you don't swab about every 10 shots or so. Can't type any more, hand swollen. More info PM me and I'll give you my phone number.
 
Waksupi

That is why I went with bore paste . I figured it might do all the polishing I need and with minimal wear since it is designed for guns. Having read all the responses I'm thinking I may give it 50 more strokes. I only did 50.
I only did 100 each because my arm was getting tired. 😁 That was a total of 300 strokes that night. Thank God it was a short-barreled gun! I needed to have them done by this weekend otherwise I would have spaced it out more.

As I said, I used blue jean material cut into 1.5" squares. I wet them with water then applied the paste in a circle leaving the center (the part that would touch the Breech plug) bare. I did ten strokes then turned it over, added the paste then did another ten. I used five patches on each grit. The denim held up really well for this rigorous endeavor. Even with a little cutting from the rifling, I was still able to turn it over and use the other side.

It seemed to have worked. Surprisingly, the bores look like mirrors. Whatever I may have missed should be taken care of by the patch and ball over time.

I hope you find your answer. Please keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know!

Walt
 
I have a supply of 600X Alundum that I used on a .54 barrel that showed flash rust in the first 6 inches from the muzzle. The scotch brite cleaned it out quite well and I then made a gray paste of the 600X and bore butter, using this worked into a patch for fire lapping. Fifteen shots later and swabbing between shots left a mirror like bore that loaded like greased glass and shoots beautifully.
I hadn't thought about that. I have used 0000 steel wool with Hoppe's #9 gun cleaner (not the BP one) for surface rust. With light rubbing, I've taken it off the outside of the barrel without removing or damaging the finish. I figured it would work just as well in the bore.

Walt
 
I just need to be able to get 2 or 3 shots to load smoothly without having to use my range rod . My gun rod is Delrin and is very tough but not as stiff as a hickory rod and I cannot load a second shot with it.

I did some research at lunch and according to 3M the 7448 pro pad has a 320 grit silicon carbide abrasive in it which they consider ultra fine . This is available at Home Depot and is gray.
 
did some research at lunch and according to 3M the 7448 pro pad has a 320 grit silicon carbide abrasive in it which they consider ultra fine . This is available at Home Depot and is gray.
According to published 3M published information the light gray 7448 Stoch-Brite is the equivalent 800 to 1000 grit or 0000 steel wool.

Here are some charts with equivalents to steel wool and grits for the various 3M Stoch-Brite pads.
1660243677282.jpeg



1660243741112.jpeg
 
I have had a couple of GPR’s through the years (both bought new) and all I ever did was ala Chuck Dixon’s recipe for polishing a bore- a few wraps of 4/0 steel wool and some 3 in 1 oil for about 100 strokes stopping short of the muzzle.
Butter smooth.

Notice I said polish.



I have to question the practice of an abrasive loaded patch to “lap” a bore. It provides no uniformity or dimensional control.
I also have to question why a quality, modern barrel manufactured on modern equipment would need to be lapped in the 1st place.
The correct way to lap a bore is to cast a lead slug and drive it through a greased bore from breech to muzzle. Now you have a precise mandrel (lap) for the lapping process.
It’s not a task for the home ‘Smith typically.
 
I have had a couple of GPR’s through the years (both bought new) and all I ever did was ala Chuck Dixon’s recipe for polishing a bore- a few wraps of 4/0 steel wool and some 3 in 1 oil for about 100 strokes stopping short of the muzzle.
Butter smooth.

Notice I said polish.



I have to question the practice of an abrasive loaded patch to “lap” a bore. It provides no uniformity or dimensional control.
I also have to question why a quality, modern barrel manufactured on modern equipment would need to be lapped in the 1st place.
The correct way to lap a bore is to cast a lead slug and drive it through a greased bore from breech to muzzle. Now you have a precise mandrel (lap) for the lapping process.
It’s not a task for the home ‘Smith typically.
I don’t believe using a piece of light grey 7448 Scotch-Brite could be called lapping. It is actually the equivalent of polishing with the 0000 steel wool that you recommend for a ‘butter smooth’ bore.

All that’s being done with this process is the removal of the sharp burrs left from the machining process. Most production barrels, such as those made by Investarm for example have not been polished or lapped. Investarm bores were famous for requiring a couple hundred shots before they were broken in. The steel wool or Scotch-Brite just speeds up the process. Got this straight from Don Getz years ago, who I considered a subject matter expert.
 
So I went by the hardware store and bought some 7448 Scotch Bright gray pad which is ultra fine. Looks like Duelist 1954 was using the Marone fine pad. Since I have already done 50 strokes with the JB I am going to do about 50 strokes with 7448 pad and then test the gun. That will probably be in the next 2 weeks
 
I don’t believe using a piece of light grey 7448 Scotch-Brite could be called lapping. It is actually the equivalent of polishing with the 0000 steel wool that you recommend for a ‘butter smooth’ bore.

All that’s being done with this process is the removal of the sharp burrs left from the machining process. Most production barrels, such as those made by Investarm for example have not been polished or lapped. Investarm bores were famous for requiring a couple hundred shots before they were broken in. The steel wool or Scotch-Brite just speeds up the process. Got this straight from Don Getz years ago, who I considered a subject matter expert.
Getz got it! You can't go wrong with 'gettzing' advice from Getz!
 
I trusted Rem-oil to protect the bore of my first M/L build, big mistake. My gun safe is out in the garage and not climate controlled, I had a de-humidifier rod in the safe but it was a small one. I checked my rifle after a few months in the safe and the barrel looked like a red potato patch, lots of rust. I cleaned and cleaned but the gun shot awful. I decided I would ruin the barrel or fix it so I put Soft Scrub kitchen cleanser on a green Scotch-bright pad and went to work. I could see a glint of metal on my pad and thought "I have ruined this barrel".

I took the gun out for a test run expecting the worst; first shot was in the bull, second shot touching the first as was the third shot, Hum........ The rifle had a new Rice barrel that I had bought off eBay for a song, turns out the barrel had several loose and tight spots, it may have been a second if there is such a thing. The best it would do was about a 5" group, now it was shooting a cloverleaf, the tight spots were barely noticeable when I cleaned it.

I wouldn't put Soft-Scrub in another barrel but it was just the ticket for my lost cause barrel.

This is the only pitting in the barrel now, just a little at the breech. The ring up from the breech is a reflection of the breach face.

Snapshot000000.jpg
 
Well finally got out to test my barrel. The lapping I did was not enough . Got a ball stuck on the 3rd shot and had to pump it out with a grease gun and an alemite fitting ,what a mess . Going to try a hundred more strokes with fine scotch bright pad.
 
Back
Top