Lard over/on revolver bullet?

[saaman]

I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers for over 50 years and never had a problem with chain fires caused by loose fitting or missing caps. In fact I have heard of purposely testing with loose or missing caps on every other chamber and it never caused a chain fire. The only two chainfires I experienced were due to poorly fitting round balls and no lube over them.

 

[nkbj]

Maybe the ionized combustion products moving at high speed through an iron tube in the planetary magnetic field causes the graphite coating on nearby granules to behave as capacitors and build up to discharge thereby igniting the adjacent chamber, especially so during lunar perigee, thus lending credence to the reporting of observations indicating that insulating materials such as grease, wax or greener cheeses would inhibit chain firing.


Just having fun, guys. It seemed like it was time to enjoy the topic.

 

[Stantheman86]

I don't know but once I get all set up, the President better call me if we get invaded because 6 shots from a Walker will destroy a Division of Chinese Infantry.

Other than that , I think tight fitting balls/bullets and caps will mitigate chain fires and the debate whether lube over the projectiles prevents chain fires will probably never be settled.

We need a lube that is workable enough to apply in chambers with a finger but stiff enough to not melt in the sun or when adjacent chambers fire.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

OK one thing hasn't changed about pigs. The melting point of lard is as follows and depends on the part of the pig rendered: backfat: 30–40 °C (86–104 °F) leaf fat: 43–48 °C (109–118 °F) mixed fat: 36–45 °C (97–113 °F). Even the highest point would have been exceeded in summer sunshine on a holster or metal. Even bees wax melts from summer heat. Maybe three seasons lard could be used.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There are "high temperature" lithium greases for machinery use. While some of it is blown away by the blast from prior shots, enough stays to act as lube before the ball going down the bore. I once used Blue and Gray pistol patch, which I now believe was merely a colored lithium grease. For revolver lube I use the white lithium grease in one pound tubs from the auto supply house. Yes if you don't like getting messy, it isn't for you. I find that a paper towel wipes away most of the mess after each cylinder. If you are such a clean freak, why are you shooting black powder?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Historically, most chain fires on revolvers occur at the rear of the cylinder due to loose fitting or missing caps. The grease/lube over the bullet helps to alleviate BP fouling of the barrel/arbor. It also makes a real mess to clean up after a firing session, but really has nothing to do with chain fires.

Exactly...., which is why I concur that it may be a "reenactorism" that folks think is historic. OR they did cover the chambers but used something stiffer than plain lard.

LD

 

[nkbj]

In the southeast Texas heat shortening worked great in the seventies (years, not Fahrenheit) and then I discovered the joys of brewing my own lube. Oh happy days!

 

[Stantheman86]

Great video on YouTube by a guy, who gives a viewpoint I never thought of.....when gun makers bore the chambers they sometimes get "chatter" or run out on the tool, especially if the boring tool isn't brand new and it makes a very slightly out of round chamber that will allow some flame in.

Also another article stating that sloppy chamber filling may leave a fine trail of powder granules leading down past the ball, leading to a flash over.

The writer of this article claims that putting a slight hand chamfer on the chambers will help the ball seal the chamber better.

Overall, most of the people I've read about who have had chain fires usually get them in the chamber next to the fired one, and the balls blow harmlessly out the chamber. The short chamber doesn't give the ball a lot of time to build up a lot of power so unless the chamber facing the loading lever goes off the gun is usually ok.

 

[nkbj]

A little chamfer funneling effect at the mouth of the chambers really does well to assist in getting the lead in the hole instead of leaving so much sheared away. On out of roundness, have noted that when measuring revolvers, along with diameters being off a thousandth from one chamber to the next even when out of roundness isn't present.
And something else, it is not usual for chambers to be taper reamed so that the deeper the bullet or ball gets pushed into the chambers the smaller it becomes in comparison to the barrel. Imagine you were trying to make longer bullets like original "conicals" accurate and the backside of the bullet is being squeezed too small by being father down the chamber.

With a bullet like this the front engages the rifling


Or like these for .36 caliber


or these for the .41 percussion.


but not with combat bullets such as used by the armed forces. So best accuracy with original design bullets could mean needing to tune up a revolver.

Haven't had a chain fire with any of those designs.

 

[Stantheman86]

Are those the Kado bullets?

I honestly think a long , lubed conical would all but stop any flame from entering the chamber. The round ball has a relatively small contact with the chamber wall.

Beef Tallow worked well today but it was 25 degrees out. Keeps the gun running because each shot sends hot tallow into the cylinder arbor, into the barrel/cylinder gap and down the bore.

Fired some Johnston and Dow conicals made by Brett at paper cartridges, with an Era's Gone mold.

Like you said above I have some variance in my chambers, two were very tight and loading these bullets was tough in those chambers. I have a .454 sizer that I was too lazy to run these through. I had to give up and go to round ball.

At 30 yards the conicals shot very well.

I loaded 4 and gave up due to the force needed to load. Some probably came out of his mold a bit big. One handed, standing at 30, has potential.

 

[Boston Bill]

I use a wad now after reading in another thread that seemed to figure that was a better solution to help with chain fires than anything else.
I do use Bore Butter over the bullets as it makes it so much easier to clean the gun!

 

[nkbj]

The bullets with the Walker are RCBS #45-225-CAV.
The .36 caliber bullets are a modified round ball mold with adjustable length.
The .41 caliber are two Lymans and a Lee.

 

[wb78963]

I use tallow rendered from beef kidney fat. It is a lot harder than tallow rendered from the body fat trimmings. Mixed 50:50 with either bees wax or paraffin wax by weight either one makes a good solid lube. Soft enough in Texas winter and solid in Texas summer.

 

[Stantheman86]

I use some kind of beef tallow sold for soapmaking......after firing a shot the "neighboring " chambers were still filled with slightly melted tallow so I guess it holds up. Got 50 some odd rounds through without having to wipe the cylinder arbor.

It's good for your hands and leather gear so after I filled the chambers I just rubbed my hands on my gun belt .

I even put a cheapo little "cylinder pouch" on my belt to hold the tin I filled with tallow. It seems like it made cleaning a ton quicker. The bore and chambers came clean with only a few patches .

 

[Ben Meyer]

For cap and ball revolvers, what works best? Is bore butter ok? My son bought his first, a Uberti 1860 Remington copy, hasn't shot it yet but plans on just shooting roundballs from it.

 

[Stantheman86]

Wonder Wads under a .454 round ball is the best bet for starting out.



Check out my video , I use them in it.

 

[wb78963]

Remember the 1946 Walker was at the dawn of revolving hand guns. We are re-inventing the wheel and we shoot in a match or for fun more shots than most of those shooters the did in a life time.
Bullet lube softens the fouling. A member of the US Mounted Rifles carried a pair of Walkers in saddle pommel holsters. The re-load was to pull out the other gun. Fouling was not a worry . Since their adversaries were armed with single shot hand guns and the U.S. Mounted Riles were not restricted to a pair of revolvers they may well have had another gun or guns.
The Patterson really was a sort of "proof of concept" firearm, However it did the job for the Texas Rangers at the battle of enchanted Rock.
Bunk

 

[Boston Bill]

For cap and ball revolvers, what works best? Is bore butter ok? My son bought his first, a Uberti 1860 Remington copy, hasn't shot it yet but plans on just shooting roundballs from it.

If nothing else, the Bore Butter sure makes it easier to clean. I use it in my Old Army and sometime I may not clean it for months. Not a problem. Also, I do use Wonder Wads between the powder and round ball.

 

[Eras Gone]

Here are is a conical and round ball cast from an original Walker mold made in 1847. You can see why the conical was not successful. It had no heel to help load it concentrically. I can see why the troops were inspired to load them up side down. Colt fixed this with his new Dragoon heeled bullet in 1851 or so. I tried to have molds made to reproduce this bullet but LEE could not reproduce the cavity exactly as the original, so I dropped the project.

I've never read a period account of grease being place over bullets in a revolver. I think that is a 20th century expedient, that I sometimes use also. Factory produced Cartridges came pre-lubricated. This was further refined when Colt introduced bullet designs with a grease groove in the late 1850s.

 

[Stantheman86]

This is the idea that I stress to my "gun friends" who are like, how did they reload those things in battle ? I'm like, I don't think it was done as much as you think. Sure they had combustible cartridges , etc but it wasn't like they were pumping 50 rounds through these things.

The tallow/bore butter over the chamber helps to extend your shooting session so you don't have to keep breaking the gun down to wipe the cylinder arbor, cylinder face and forcing cone. The Tallow certainly helped when I fired my Dragoon.