Late 1600's fowler lock style?

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Model19

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I'm getting ready to order a TVM fowler kit and am wondering what lock type or style might be most appropriate for a late 1600's era version. The kit comes with a large Siler. Is there a better choice for the earlier period stuff?

TIA,
Geoff
 
I don't think anything on the TVM fowler, would be late 1600's. The Siler is probably at least a hundred years later. If that is the era you are looking for, check out The Rifle Shoppe, Leonard Day, or some of the custom builders on this site.
 
There are no locks or kits available for that early date other than those mentioned above.
 
Dog Lock

17th century fowlers are fairly bulky. Heavy butt stock area, and loooooooooooooong barrels.
 
Jack Brooks sells some lock kits that are just the ticket. One is an Early English 1680 with a dog catch, one is a fine English about 1700 one is a Dutch Flintlock circa 1690 and one is a French Flintlock by Soiron circa 1690. They are all kits and will take lots of know how to finish or it will cost about 500.00 to buy the parts and have someone competent to build one for you.
The biggest problem is everything else "TVM" will not be right for the gun you are looking to build.
 
Straighten out my lack of knowledge on these things. When you guy refer to a "lock kit" do you mean just the lock itself, or is that shorthand for Flintlock as in the whole weapon? Can we say weapon here? :wink:
 
Lock kit... as in rough cast parts that need to be filed, hardened, polished, put together, etc.

It's only a weapon to me if it's used to defend or offend human life. Any other use, it's a tool. :thumbsup:
 
Well said. So a lock kit is just that, the various parts of the lock mechanism. I am an amateur knifemaker and a long time 2 stroke bike tuner, so I can make metal hot, smooth and shiny.
 
Making one of these lock kits would be made easier if you were experienced at making small clocks, or wrist watches. If you have made a combustion engine from scratch, that would also serve you well.

In the pre-1700 period, we had either Flintlocks, or Match locks, or Wheellocks. ( You can gain a huge education about these arms, by going to the threads on this forum that discuss these arms.)The "Dog lock" was one of the earliest of Flintlock styles. It has the double-throated "Cock" of the Brown Bess, but has a mechanical lever behind the cock at the rear of the plate, that has a "hook" that locks over the back of the cock when its cocked to full cock. Pulling the trigger moves this "doglock" back and releases the cock to fall. Think of it as an External sear and full-cock notch.

Since the Percussion ignition system, and " action " was invented in the 1820s, there should be no confusion about what kind of lock you can find. WE DID NOT HAVE such guns and LOCKS built here in the Colonies, back in that period.

Any gun that might have made it to our shores, came from England, France, or Holland, or Germany. You simply don't have a lot of choice in either arms, or designs. Match locks came to the colonies with the first settlers in the early 1600s. The Wheellocks followed, altho they were so expensive to own, and maintain, that the match locks remained as the principal tool of the common man until the appearance of the flintlock action. The flintlock has been with us since the late 1600's. With very little design change, its still going strong.
 
Dog held cock at half cock area. Dog does NOT stay in notch on full cock. Pulling cock back to full RELEASES Dog from Notch. Pulling trigger causes cock to fall. No trigger pulling can release Dog if notch is good.
 
Thanks for the correction. Its been a while since I handled one. I am sure you are correct, altho that is not how I remember they work. :bow: :thumbsup:
 
You may or may not be able to do the lock kit, but you still need the rest of the gun! Do some searching for photos of early guns, track of the wolf has a Leonard Day Dutch trade gun, The rifle shoppe should have photos. You will see how drastically different the hardware and stock shape is from the TVM gun, no way to use the TVM parts. I bought my Dutch gun from Leonard Day in the spring of 2008 and it was cheaper than the TVM fowler. At that time he had several different models of early English and Dutch guns. I am not sure if Mr. Day is still building them, I don't see his ads anymore.
 
I'm not afraid of any aspect of building one of these. My first efforts may not be show quality, but this is not rocket science. I read, study, ask questions, and go slowly.
My original idea was a club butt, but those are a bit harder to find. Very appropriate for farmers in NH and Maine ( I know, it was all Mass Bay colony) in 1690 or thereabouts. Now I'm thinking to do a kit fowler circa mid 1700's. I can always do a Doglock or early flintlock club butt as a second effort later.
I know I can count on plenty of help from you guys once I start a build. I like having things I made myself much more than something I bought. It's all fun to me, and just another form of education. :hatsoff:
 
jl said:
Dog held cock at half cock area. Dog does NOT stay in notch on full cock. Pulling cock back to full RELEASES Dog from Notch. Pulling trigger causes cock to fall. No trigger pulling can release Dog if notch is good.
It sounds like the dog lock would be a good idea to use for building a hunting arm; the features described seem like it has a safety catch that flintlocks don't have. Is this the case?
 
Model19 said:
My original idea was a club butt, but those are a bit harder to find. Very appropriate for farmers in NH and Maine ( I know, it was all Mass Bay colony) in 1690 or thereabouts. Now I'm thinking to do a kit fowler circa mid 1700's.
Sitting Fox has a Hudson Valley fowler here: http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K9 CLUB BUTT FOWLER/K9 Club Butt Fowler.html
I think it is a 20ga x 42" barrel and Queen Anne lock. Just something to consider for the early time period you're looking at.
 
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True dog lock had no half cock notch I do not think. The dog caught in the notch WAS the half cock. Dog is swiveled into notch while holding cock back manually to correct spot. It took both hands for me but I suppose one could eventually thumb dog into place with practice. Definite different experience handling one! Some late ones I have read, had half cock and a dog with the dog eventually disappearing. Only one Ive experienced had,as Paul V said, a double throat cock that was FLAT (thin material) with the bottom where screw goes in being circular. One photo seen shows no external screw-cock is apparently part of tumbler?? Someone here can give you contact info on Leonard Day-been in business for years-and you can see the 1625-75 fowlers that he builds for sale 950.00 or so. One used to be a N England fowler like you are asking about )Cookson??) TVM makes good stuff but nothing remotely 1600's. Stock shapes then look strange today-from fishtail(early) to clubbut, etc. Hope this helps.
 
Model19:

I'm not afraid of any aspect of building one of these. My first efforts may not be show quality, but this is not rocket science. I read, study, ask questions, and go slowly.
My original idea was a club butt, but those are a bit harder to find. Very appropriate for farmers in NH and Maine ( I know, it was all Mass Bay colony) in 1690 or thereabouts. Now I'm thinking to do a kit fowler circa mid 1700's. I can always do a Doglock or early flintlock club butt as a second effort later.
I know I can count on plenty of help from you guys once I start a build. I like having things I made myself much more than something I bought. It's all fun to me, and just another form of education. :hatsoff:

Here is my .62 Dutch gun made by Leonard Day. This one would fit well with the era you are looking for.

Helga1.jpg


Helga2.jpg


Have a Merry Christmas!

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras
 
Beautiful! My Leonard Day gun is the best muzzleloading money I have ever spent.
 
Trot:

Beautiful! My Leonard Day gun is the best muzzleloading money I have ever spent.

I agree, the balance is superb and she is very accurate at 50 yards for being a smoothbore. Plus Mr. Day is a really nice guy to deal with.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras
 
Very very nice! Love the stock on that piece. I've been communicating with Sitting Fox about his club butt and may have found what I'm after there. I was getting discouraged on that style but no longer.
 
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