lead bar moulds

Two places ya might check for stick lead are autobody shop supply houses, they used stick lead for body filling(dating myself but some places might still use it}. You might also check out upsize sporting goods that sell waterfowling decoys, the decoy anchors come in a stick form also. Bill

 

[CrackStock]

A lot of what we do is for demonstration purposes or for giggles around the fire. Hey, why not?

But on the other hand, how did these guys get lead? They did not mine their own. It was purchased or bartered in some form. I think it unlikely that they used commercial molds for this purpose, but rather would have used any convenient shape. Lead would be sold by rough gauges of weight. Strips from gouged wood is a mighty convenient method and this could have bits shaved to get the right weight.

Balls are a problem in that most people had custom cherried ball molds for their rifles so nobody would have sold finished balls.

5 lbs? I would also think that a bit much to lug about. I think that I might have a few strips of about a pound or 2 at the most.

Just my thoughts,

CS

 

[bnail]

:agree: Touche Jack. The logic just doesn't call for carrying bulk lead. carrying the bulk lead precast for your bore makes infinatly more sense, and I've never justified this contradiction satisfactorily with myself. I carry bulk lead to events for demonstrations, and have one ladle shaped ingot I carry in my ladle when I'm out in the woods, but the logic has always escaped me as to why I do it that way.

 

[FearNot]

Just curious here, but why would you want to carry a small strip of lead to be made into bullets? Wouldn't it be better to carry the balls already made? If you're gonna carry lead around, seems to me it should be already spherical when you head out.

:results:

 

[weirdjack]

A lot of what we do is for demonstration purposes or for giggles around the fire. (SNIP)
But on the other hand, how did these guys get lead? They did not mine their own. (SNIP)
5 lbs? I would also think that a bit much to lug about.

I think the giggles and the "for experience" factor are large in this. It is fun to sit around the fire at night under a cave shelter and cast round balls. I was simply curious as to history of people actually carrying bar or disc lead in their pouches as the norm, instead of casting their round balls prior to the hunt or scout (or at least as they obtained fresh lead supplies). The lead weighs the same whether it's in a bar or ready to stuff down the bore.....but it's a lot handier to use in ball form.
True, they'd barter for or buy lead in some form whenever possible. ****Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that in 1756 they couldn't go to Walmart and buy a box of 100 swaged balls??? **** But would it not have been prudent to cast it up balls asap in their respective molds, than to leave it in bar or disc form? Unless they were planning on whacking their enemies and game animals over the head with lead bars.
5 pounds too much? For my .69 musket, that's only 80 rounds. So drop that back to say .50-.54 for a rifle and it'd be around 160-200 balls. Granted, Mr. Baker only carries 50 balls, but he isn't in the wilderness for months at a time either. But if I were going on a long hunt away from lead supplies, would 160-200 rounds be inappropriate?
And if I were going on a military scout to do some damage, 80 rounds for my trusty musket might be a welcome 5 pounds! Weren't British and Colonial troops issued 60 paper cartridges? That would be nearly 5 pounds for a Bess.
I'm just asking....I'm curious. I used to carry a little lead in my bag, now I just carry additional round balls of equal weight. I can always melt them down for the casting giggles
Jack

 

I made a soapstone mold to cast lead washers that are about 3 inches across, a quarter inch thick with a three quarter inch hole in the center. That way I can string a cord or rope through them and hang them up.

Just :m2c:

 

[weirdjack]

I made a soapstone mold to cast lead washers

There ya go! I once got excited by a photo in a book and made a soapstone ball mold. It threw a pretty crappy ball, but they did actually shoot okay.
Jack

 

[crockett]

It's a fact that lead bar was carried. H.E. Leman had some. I think a Dixie Gun Works BP Anuual had an article on it about 5-10 years back. The gun was found in Texas- a Leman trade rifle and the hunting pouch had the Leman lead bar.
The only thing I can figure is that with a bullet mold you could remelt balls of a different caliber and use them in your gun. Maybe the bar packed tighter than round balls. Does seem to be a mystery.

 

[brubincam]

why melt and remelt your lead so many times? when i melt mine i make balls,,,,, :master:

 

[CrackStock]

The point can be to put a huge block of lead into bite sized pieces for convenient use later, to clean dirty lead of impurities by melting and then skimming the top, to get a custom balance of lead by adding a mix of wheel weights or because you like the ingots.

The point that we were focused on is that you are re-enacting the situation of a period shooter having received a purchased lead strip or ingot as a sold commodity and converting it into the useful balls as they are needed rather than doing so in huge batches as we now do with our convenient and modern lead pots.

The melting of the lead into the strip, ingot or bar in this context is merely to put it into the form that people would likely have received it. It is also easier to carry as it is more compact.

This creates a demo opportunity -- otherwise, there is little point to it that I can see.

CS

 

[Stumpkiller]

To get long, flat ingots you could pour into a shallow pan and then chop it into size with an axe or hawk (or a hammer and cold chisel if you're as good with an axe as me).

I melt my scrap in an iron plumber's pot on the Coleman for the first melt. It's always a mess of crud and dross. I'll usually run about 25 pounds of ingots with lots of fluxing and skimming. I pour that into smaller 1 & 1/2 lb ingots to use in the electric furnace. Also, by mixing ingots from several batches, I get a more even ball weight from session to session.

I get lots of lead from a junkyard that still has the oakum packing melted in from the sewer pipes. This is definately not what you want to melt in the kitchen in your wife's favorite crepe skillet.

 

[crockett]

The Museum of the Fur Trade sells annual issues. In the 1978 there is an article on lead bar. By the early 1800's lead was apparantly being mined in the US along the Mississippi and cast into pigs weighing 65-80 lbs and used as steamship balast for supplies being run up the Missouri to various posts. There, it was cast into smaller bars or balls. It gave post employees something to do. Lead pigs were also packed into areas like Fort Hall. There is a picture of a wood form for one pound strips/bars of lead. Wood seems pretty marginal. Some Indians also cast pigs in "earth", I assume sand- probably okay in the arid west.
The question still remains, WHY go to all the trouble. I read a long time ago that each rifle barrel was unique in bore diameter and the gunsmith would saw off the end of the barrel blank and make a mold specifically for that gun. Sounds great in theory but how do you split the mold/barrel end apart- if you saw it you lose material, besides patched balls would seem to negate the importance of an exact ball size.

 

Actually in Charles Hanson's book, "The Plains Rifle" in the photograph on page 77, Plate 40, there is a lead bar/strip, found in the mountains of Utah, with raised embossing that states ST.LOUIS SHOT TOWER CO. that is, or was?, part of the Museum of Fur Trade collection. I have a lead ladle like the one in the middle of the photograph that I still use today. Bought it at a flea market for a $1. So using that for scale, I estimate the strip of lead is about 14 inches in length and 3/4 of an inch in width. Weighing about 1lb. when compared to similar bars made today.

I'd love it if one of our resident machinist could make me a mold out of steel or brass, complete with the lettering, so I could REPRODUCE this item.

Just :m2c:

 

[CrackStock]

Could this be machined from a single piece of aluminum or would it need to be a two part mold?

Gee ClayPipe -- they are telling us that there is no point so we should not do it.

However, if you come up with a mold, I want a few ingots!

CS

 

It could be a single or two piece mold. A two piece mold would give sharper corners. But, a single would be less of a hassle. I would prefer hard brass, steel or even iron, because I would be afraid that aluminium would warp over time.

Sure there's a point, its period correct!

Just :m2c:

 

[weirdjack]

they are telling us that there is no point so we should not do it.

Not really. It's fun to sit around the fire and cast round balls.
I've simply always wondered why we would carry both lead bar and cast balls in a hunting pouch. Now, perhaps we would have lead bar in the main supply stash back at base camp. That would make sense....to provide a common lead source for various hunters in one party with varying bore sizes.
Personally, I've used hardwood routed (or carved) to form a bar mold....it's easy and free. I've also purchased lead in corn-muffin and round-muffin form (Golden Age Arms used to sell lead as corn-muffin ingots).
But all of this discussion has me heading to the workshop to make a clay "ingot" mockup, then a silicone mold from it. Then I can cast lead ingots nicely in the silicone mold.
Jack

 

[bnail]

How much deformation would a round ball experience bouncing around in a shot bag? If you're wourried about accuracy and consistany in shooting, would you want relatively new-cast roundballs?

 

[CrackStock]

Actually, there are a lot of people who tumble their balls to dimple them and reduce the prominence of the sprue. You never know how these things will be viewed by people.

I just cast them, weigh them, load them and launch them.

Back on the strips/ingots, I might keep a strip in my big box for demo reasons. I never keep them in my shooting pouch, but then I do not carry a mold in my shooting pouch either.

CS

 

[CrackStock]

And what to my wondering eyes should appear...

No, not Christmastime, but close -- my Dixie close out catalog showed up and I see an ad for a lead bar. It is a long thin strip that is rounded on the ends and "marked "St Louis Shot Tower Co" and is a copy of one found in 1932 in Utah's Wasatch Mountains along with a human skeleton, the rusty remains of a plains rifle, taters of clothing, a bullet ladle, a mould and a mass of printed paper that proved to be the remains of a bible. The bares date as early as 1858 and are identical with ons found on the steamboat Bertrand, which sank in its way to Fort Benton, Montana, in 1865. Bars are 10 1/4" long and 1/2" (on average) wide and weight approximately 1/2 lb"

Order #SS2176 Price... $20.00

Seems a bit pricey to me, but it also means that there must be a mold out there and we might be able to learn a bit from this.

CS

 

I gave up looking for a mould to cast lead bars and made my own, I did it thus..... I raided my scrap box and found a hunk if angle iron that looked as if it would cast a 1/2 wide bar. It was about 11 inches long and I cut 2 one inch pieces for end caps. I brazed then on so I would have a flange or lip near the top, this was so I could grab them with pliers and dump the bar out. The mould casts a triangular 1/2 inch bar 9 inches long. The mould looks a bit funkey and homemade (as it is), but casts a good looking bar.