Lead bullet ban in CA 7-1-08

[omgb]

There's only about 200 of them left. They lose a few to the power lines every couple of years. Condors have a very low birth rate and a high chick mortality rate. My guess is that in 20 years or so, the condor issue will be moot as the birds will no longer exist in the wild. I'd be willing to bet though that the ban is permanent.

I was notified that this thread had been moved. I originally figured it was a general topic about muzzle loading since lead is what we shoot. But, ifn the powers that be find this venue more suitable, I'm game.

 

[John Taylor]

I think Gold would be a good replacement, it is a little more weight for better knock down and because it cost more you will become a better shot, not wanting to waste any.
Now if you were shooting a 20 gauge smooth bore this might work

 

[Allan Gray]

Nimrod,
I've got my thinking cap on but I'm coming up with nothin' Hopefully in due time someone will come up with a lead substitute.

I haven't looked at the exact area this ban covers...maybe you know, Is Fort Hunter Ligget in the condor zone? I was planing on a pig hunt down there later this winter. Maybe I should bring the bow instead?

 

[Blizzard of '93]

silver would work well and so would pewter.

 

[Allan Gray]

Pewter is an interesting idea, but I thought that true pewter has lead in it?

After reading more about this ban, I learned that any ammo used must have less than 1% lead content.
I also saw a map of the area...I didn't realize it was that big. Luckily the law doesn't kick in 'till next July so I do have time to go blast a pig with my ML this Winter!

 

[Claude Mathis]

 

[rabbit03]

you know I aint real up on all of this Condor thing. How is the lead from my jacketed pistol, rifle or lead roundball for that matter killing all of these birds?

Can someone tell me or are they just blanketly saying no lead like in burning the house down to get rid of the rats. :youcrazy:

rabbit03 (condor deficient)

 

[rabbit03]

Heck Rebel didn't you know that lead was invented by meat eating conservatives to kill off all of the pretty birds that liberals like to watch! :blah:

rabbit03

 

[Claude Mathis]

Can someone tell me or are they just blanketly saying no lead like in burning the house down to get rid of the rats. :youcrazy:

Like most gun laws, that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

you're right, but it's a minor %'age. it's probably over the 1% limit tho.

 

[Pork Chop]

I am sure that lead was invented by the same evil people that made the evil weather changing machine that GWB used to create Katrina...

 

[Nimrod]

Here is the artical in the Sac. Bee[url] http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/552196.html[/url] and a map of the lead ban.
And I thought the DFG was on our side?

 

[rabbit03]

:rotf: :rotf:

More than likely! :thumbsup:

rabbit03

 

[Allan Gray]

Working in construction I am lucky to have access to alot of different materials and expertise.
I had a thought so I followed up...

I've seen sheetmetal workers soldering joints in building gutter systems. Since I know that lead is not cool in Ca. I asked one of these "tin knockers" as we call them what they use.

He explained that the solder they use, which comes in big rolls and is about 3/8" in diameter, is lead free. The idea being that rainwater passes over the solder joints and into the ground eventually so keeps the water lead free.

He gave me a couple peices of the stuff and I can't see a big difference from real lead, although maybe it seems a bit lighter. I was able to put a groove into it with my thumbnail so it seems like it would melt and cast up nicely.

I'm going to cast up a few .60 cal balls with the stuff and compare the weight, etc. with balls cast from real lead.

Stay tuned...this may be an answer, for PRBs at least. If anyone's already tried this with no success, please chime in and let me know.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Here is the artical in the Sac. Bee[url] http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/552196.html[/url] and a map of the lead ban.
And I thought the DFG was on our side?

I wonder how DFG would like it if all CA residents boycotted buying a hunting license next year? Of course it won't happen, but it would sure send a message.

 

[Zonie]

Here's a link to at least one source of "lead free solder". It is a tin/silver/copper alloy.
One of them is about $49 for 1.66 pounds which works out to about $29.00/pound.
TIN SOLDER

pure tin = .264 lb/cu in. brinnel hardness = 5
pure lead = .4095 lb/cu in brinnel hardness = 4.7
pewter (Sn91, Sb7, Cu2) = .263 lb/cu in brinnel hardness =23

This basically says Pure tin is very slightly harder than pure lead and it weighs about 65 percent as much.
Based on this 65 percent weight, a .495 diameter lead roundball which weighs 182 grains would weigh 117.3 grains if it was cast out of pure Tin.
That loss of weight is going to increase the muzzle velocity a lot but it will slow down even faster than a lead ball.
It will also have only 65 percent of the energy of a lead ball at any given velocity.

At $29/pound for the tin solder that would make the .495 diameter roundball cost about 48 cents each.

The thing that bothers me most about substituting the Tin solder for lead is if you were out in the field and the DFG guy stops you and accuses you of using lead balls, how do you prove to him that your ammo is totally lead free?
It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he took your gun and ammo and wrote up a citation on the spot. (They seem to have no sense of humor).

Anyway, for now this might be a possible solution to the ban.

 

[Mulebrain]

SAN FRANCISCO (November 30, 2006) ”“ A broad coalition including hunters, Native Americans, and health and conservation organizations filed suit today against the California Fish and Game Commission and Department of Fish and Game for continuing to allow toxic lead ammunition that is poisoning rare California Condors even though safe, reliable bullets and shot are readily available.

Readily Available??? Where?


“My mother fell ill earlier this year after accidentally ingesting lead fragments in venison from a deer that I shot,” said Leif Bierer, another hunter and plaintiff. “This is a real threat to hunters and their families.”

If this was the case, the whole population would have died off eons ago!

Banning lead ammo, is like driving a stake in every traditional shooter and hunters chest! They should have given "everyone" an alternative before they outright banned it!

What about us?


More from this nice little report!
[url] http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/press/condor-lead-11-30-2006.html[/url]

 

[Zonie]

"
I wonder how DFG would like it if all CA residents boycotted buying a hunting license next year? "
------------------
Sounds like an excellent idea Claude.

As it is, I'm betting that the license sales in the central and Northern Calif area drops over 40%.
If this happens it will put a real hurt on the DFG (to which I say, "Maybe next year you idiots might join the hunters who were against this stupid law and get it repealed."

 

[Allan Gray]

Thanks, Jim

Wow, this topic is all over the place on this forum. I'm getting burned out. :shocked2:
Yes, the thought of "how do you prove it to ranger man?" did cross my mind. My plan, if the lead substitute panned out, was to go afield armed with enough material data to send DFG away talking to themselves. My personal experience is that DFG is not the enemy. I've only ever had pleasant experiences running into them. Many, if not most of them are hunters and sportsmen themselves.

By the way, I may be mis-informed but I'm not sure if lashing out at CA fish and game is correct. They don't make the laws, just enforce them. To me, that seems like blaming the police for drunk driving laws. Correct me if I'm off here.
If anything, this might create more work for DFG. One more thing to police, and I'll bet they'll see an increase in depradation permit requests.

Another point; if I fully understand this :bull: law, target shooters need not worry? This applies only to hunters. Supposedly we are the problem.

I think it would be a good idea to monitor the progress of these condors after the law takes off in July. If things don't change there is an opportunity to prove them wrong.

Cheers

 

[Many Klatch]

I have been shooting ball bearings out of my smoothbores for years. With my .60 over 75 grains of 3F I can hold dead on at 200 yards. They really zip and since they are perfectly round, they fly a lot straighter. I guess if you wanted to shoot them out of a rifle you might want to go fairly undersized and then use a Chamois leather patch to protect the rifling.

There are places that sell nothing but ball bearings in almost any size that you want. We used to have an old barrel maker that shot ball bearings all the time. After a match was done, he would go up to the back stop and pick out his ball bearings for reuse.

Many Klatch