Lead Sled....just don't

[Rifleman1776]

Ran into an old friend at a funeral yesterday. He is an avid ml'er going back many years. Last year he got a chance to go to Colorado on an elk hunt. As experienced as he is he listened to some really bad advice on what charges to use. To test loads he put his ml rifle into a Lead Sled and charged up to something in excess of 100 gr. bp. First shot his rifle broke at the wrist. I've heard of this happening before but ml rifles are especially susceptible if they are made with highly figured wood. A rifle must be able to move backwards (recoil) when fired. Otherwise the energy will devastate the weakest area of the stock. Those Lead Sleds look like a good idea but the laws of physics still apply.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Ouch.

That's where the old rule of thumb of "practice with what you hunt with" shines.

On the other hand, I was with a "light frame" guy who shot a slug shotgun (wearing a T-shirt in the summer) when lying prone on a piece of cardboard. Broke his collarbone.

 

[Sun City]

Experience is a great teacher.....but she's TUFF!!

 

[Britsmoothy]

If you can't shoot a rifle like a man give up and stay at home.
99% of my shooting is off hand because nature likes to surprise me!

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you can't shoot a rifle like a man give up and stay at home.
99% of my shooting is off hand because nature likes to surprise me!

Only partly agree. A lot of hunting shots with a rifle are from a rest of some kind. And, working up loads with an ml is entirely proper from a rest. But the rifle does need to be able to recoil. It's that old equal and opposite thing at work.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Only partly agree. A lot of hunting shots with a rifle are from a rest of some kind. And, working up loads with an ml is entirely proper from a rest. But the rifle does need to be able to recoil. It's that old equal and opposite thing at work.

Fair enough sir.

 

[BrownBear]

I live in the land of big boomers, both modern and muzzleloading. Probably more large bores per capita than anywhere else in the country.

And I'm here to tell you that the prohibition against lead sleds doesn't stop at muzzleloaders. I've seen enough high-end modern rifles, many of them fine old wood-stocked collector pieces, broken at the wrist or shattered around the magazine from over-enthusiastic use of lead. Haven't seen it myself, but I've even heard tales of synthetic stocks deciding they were no longer one-piece stocks.

If you do it right, even the biggest boomers in either camp aren't a problem with your shoulder behind them at the bench rest.

Fine method for sighting in. Then get off your hiney and shoot without the rest.

 

[RHensley]

Ran into an old friend at a funeral yesterday. He is an avid ml'er going back many years. Last year he got a chance to go to Colorado on an elk hunt. As experienced as he is he listened to some really bad advice on what charges to use. To test loads he put his ml rifle into a Lead Sled and charged up to something in excess of 100 gr. bp. First shot his rifle broke at the wrist. I've heard of this happening before but ml rifles are especially susceptible if they are made with highly figured wood. A rifle must be able to move backwards (recoil) when fired. Otherwise the energy will devastate the weakest area of the stock. Those Lead Sleds look like a good idea but the laws of physics still apply.

I also have found that when setting the sights that a good sand bag fro the front and good control at the rear of the stock works better for me.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Experience is a great teacher.....but she's TUFF!!

Wisdom comes from experience.
Experience comes from costly errors.

 

[Cowboy]

Okay, gotta ask?

What’s a Lead Sled ??

I take it from the thread that it’s a device to put your muzzleloader in to proof a barrel with a rather large charge?

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Nodrama43]

Many times experience hurts. The more it hurts the more you learn.

 

[RedFeather]

A Caldwell Lead Sled is a rifle rest that you can add weight to, up to two 25 lbs weight plates to reduce recoil. Lots of people use these. They are useful for shooting heavy kickers to develop loads or just relieve recoil. I'm sure over-doing it (too big a load, too much weight) can wreck a gun. Bubba will always find a way.

As to "shooting like a man", well, I have a Lead Sled. After four retinal eye surgeries I was forced to get rid of my high recoiling long guns. That was 24 years ago. Thanks to the Lead Sled, I've been able to acquire and enjoy such guns once more. So don't judge based on your testosterone level. Busting the snot out of yourself is not a measure of masculinity.

 

[Bad Karma]

This ^^^ my old man was an Army First Sergeant. WW2 vintage and as tough as they come. He used to work up M1 target loads with a bag of #8 shot between the butt and his shoulder. He called it his sissy bag and we’d be shooting, long after the toughest guys had called it a day. I’m nowhere near as tough as pop was but I’m smart enough to know a good idea when I see one so yeah, I use a sissy bag, and I’ve used led sleds and other such rests in the past. The trick is to allow the rifle to recoil at least a little, you’re only trying to dampen the recoil and or slow it down.

If you can't shoot a rifle like a man give up and stay at home.
99% of my shooting is off hand because nature likes to surprise me!

Long ago I was a professionally instructed gunman and I enjoy shooting offhand too but there’s a time and place for all of those positions that are beaten into thick young heads...

 

[arcticap]

An experienced .45-70 bench rest shooter showed me this hold to help dampen the amount of felt recoil when shooting heavy loads, especially from lighter weight rifles.
I found that it really does help to protect the shoulder from the pain and discomfort of recoil, especially during warm weather when wearing light clothing and are without shoulder protection.
But a slightly higher gun rest may be required.

 

[Cowboy]

A Caldwell Lead Sled is a rifle rest that you can add weight to, up to two 25 lbs weight plates to reduce recoil. Lots of people use these. They are useful for shooting heavy kickers to develop loads or just relieve recoil. I'm sure over-doing it (too big a load, too much weight) can wreck a gun. Bubba will always find a way.

I appreciate your response my friend. I learned something new this evening.

Thank you.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Don Steele]

I use a strap-on recoil pad from a company called "Rand Elite" whenever I'm working up loads for anything I have that generates a lot of recoil whether it's a 50 cal muzzleloader with heavy loads, .375 H&H or a .458 WinMag. I recommend this product. It works great, doesn't add a lot of length to the LOP and keeps me from bruising badly (with the .458 WinMag) like I did prior to getting this little item. I use the 50 cal for Table and Chunk shooting where load development can involve doing a LOT of shooting (in my case anyhow..) using 85-100 gn charges of Swiss powder to find the smallest one-hole group possible.
Likewise...getting to a really good load for dangerous game with the 458 was a painful experience.
The strap-on pad really alleviates a lot of the misery with those loads (70.3 gn IMR 3031 behind a 500 gn solid bullet). The good news is when you finally take your shot on a Cape Buffalo or Elephant standing 20 yds or so from you...you never feel the recoil.

 

[BrownBear]

Okay, gotta ask?

What’s a Lead Sled ??

I take it from the thread that it’s a device to put your muzzleloader in to proof a barrel with a rather large charge?

Not on your life.... Or at least the life of your gun stock. If you're clanking away with max recoil loads in big boomers you need some "give" to help the stock survive. The most popular devise I know of for proof testing is strapping your gun to an old tire and torching it off with a long string. Then sit back and watch the gun and tire hop into the air!

 

[Poboy]

Yeppers. My two cents..... Lead sleds sound like a bad idea. Why not just use shotbags and reposition the rifle? It allows stability while also providing recoil, the only downside is the rifle needs to be re-sighted after each shot.

Perhaps I need to invent a different rifle rest, and get rich? But, if you think about it, it's kind of a flawed concept to begin with. A rifle will react differently when allowed to recoil than locked down.

If you can't re-sight a rifle well enough to group shots, then working up a load for accuracy is the LEAST of your problems. Working on rifle handling would be time better invested.

As far as bench testing vs. off-hand, not only should a guy do that, but, while it may be necessary to take off-hand shots in some hunting situations, the fact of the matter is, the priority should be to avoid that as much as possible. Wounding game to feed buzzards harms the game population, robs fellow hunters of the opportunity at that animal, and does little for the self-esteem of the hunter.

Not to say that practicing off-hand isn't extremely valuable, especially to evaluate your limitations. But, realizing I'm preaching to the choir, more importantly is respecting the limitations of your weapon, circumstances and personal limitations, and not "pushing the envelope", but passing on questionable shots.

 

[Okie Hog]

Never liked lead sleds. ive seen several nice gun stocks and scopes trashed by lead sleds.

i'm nearly 80 years old and don't fully understand how otherwise healthy folks become so recoil sensitive. Maybe i'm somewhat lucky. Recoil don't bother me much. For really hard kicking guns i have a couple shirts with pads sewn into the left shoulder.

 

[Poboy]

Never liked lead sleds. ive seen several nice gun stocks and scopes trashed by lead sleds.

i'm nearly 80 years old and don't fully understand how otherwise healthy folks become so recoil sensitive. Maybe i'm somewhat lucky. Recoil don't bother me much. For really hard kicking guns i have a couple shirts with pads sewn into the left shoulder.

Me either. I guess being old men we grew up different, but I was shooting a .303 Brit at the age of 7 and weighing under a hundred. Wasn't a problem. But, ya gotta keep them suckers right to your shoulder, (all kickers), or they'll hurt ya quick.