WANTED leather bag with woven strap

[Cvkotvkse]

I don't know what this is but to me it appears to be quill work on smoked moose hide

View attachment 104286

View attachment 104287

Note the white lines of quill work along the sides and just above the bottom of the bag, color of the moose hide is about right as well.

AAELA! NICE BAG!
Origins and current location?

 

[Cvkotvkse]

AAELA! NICE BAG!
Origins and current location?

Oops! Never mind... Found it.

 

[Toklo Etee]

Sir....I respect your opinion & I agree that finger woven straps do tend to stretch but......are there any extant examples of Northern Great lakes bags that are constructed like you describe? I am from the South as well & I am very familiar with the applique tape method that you describe, but to my knowledge those bandolier bags date to the early 19th century.
If the OP wants an accurate bag that would reflect material culture of the Seven years war......why not research Extant 18th Cen Iroquois bags and have one reproduced? There are many surviving examples vs making some interpretation based on a painting?

Please do not misunderstand my comments......as someone who has spent the last 20 plus years interpreting Mid 18 Cen Creek material culture..... sometimes you have to take images/First person documentation and create interpretations of items because that is all you have!

Case in point..... Southern Neck knife sheaths......Adair describes them a couple of times...do not know of any surviving examples...

Great conversation
David

 

[Cvkotvkse]

Sir....I respect your opinion & I agree that finger woven straps do tend to stretch but......are there any extant examples of Northern Great lakes bags that are constructed like you describe? I am from the South as well & I am very familiar with the applique tape method that you describe, but to my knowledge those bandolier bags date to the early 19th century.
If the OP wants an accurate bag that would reflect material culture of the Seven years war......why not research Extant 18th Cen Iroquois bags and have one reproduced? There are many surviving examples vs making some interpretation based on a painting?

Please do not misunderstand my comments......as someone who has spent the last 20 plus years interpreting Mid 18 Cen Creek material culture..... sometimes you have to take images/First person documentation and create interpretations of items because that is all you have!

Case in point..... Southern Neck knife sheaths......Adair describes them a couple of times...do not know of any surviving examples...

Great conversation
David

Stonko, om-camee?
No offense taken. I did not mean to imply that the materials would have been the same at all, just attempting to describe the functional characteristics of the combination of whatever materials would be in order to be for "go" as well as "show," with a nod to combo's that worked down here at times.
I'd actually not be surprised if the bag in question still exists, as Sir William was probably the single most important person in Anglo-Native interaction of that area and period, as Adair was with our people down here. ( I suspect that Adair isn't as well known , due to his going "more Native" than his Northern counterpart... Another story for a other time.)
I wonder if it might have gone back to Great Britain with him, and might be in a museum there, available for on-line study?

 

[Toklo Etee]

There used to be a Woodland Conference that was held in Ohio.....Dr. Scott Stevenson commented on the fact that many early Native made Items ended up in "Curiosity Cabinets" in England, Scotland, France, etc.
The Aberdeen Ogilive collection is a great example of that. A great collection of early Southeastern material that was unknown untill Scott & Rick Guthrie went to Scotland and was able to photograph the collection around 2000.
So to your point.....there are probably some great early pieces in private collections in "Curiosity Cabinets" that have yet to be seen!

 

[andy52]

I suspect that the strap portrayed consists of the beaded applique being sewn to one single wider leather strap, rather than being a webbing between two narrow ones. Remember, the function of the strap is to carry a heavy bag; the applique is for decoration. The strap needs some flexibility, sufficient strength, AND AS LITTLE STRETCH AS POSSIBLE. In this case, a wide leather strap with Native decoration. (If the man wearing it is indeed Sir William Johnston, there is a strong possibility it was decorated by his Mohawk wife, the sister of Joseph Brant.)
Although heavy wool fingerwoven straps on fingerwoven bags existed here early on, by the early nineteenth century, at least here in the Southeast, pillow-ticking had become the more common backing, with the beaded cloth applique being sewn onto it, with either beaded or ribbon edging. This combination also met the three requirements I listed above.

My thoughts on how I'll make the strap is with two lightweight pieces of leather sewing one with the diamond bead pattern, then the other piece glued to the back covering the bead stitching and finishing with leather piping on the edge with the beads sewn on at the same time as the edge.

 

[andy52]

I also like the bag that french colonial showed and considering there is no clear picture of the bag in the paintings I'll go with something similar in design, maybe not as ornate and I'll most likely use beads, not quill. I ordered 10 strands of old greasy buttermilk-colored pony beads that I think will be close to the color needed. Also 100 brass cones and a couple of hanks of red horsehair. I'm sure there will be a few other things I need but I've got the bags complete in my mind if you understand that kind of thing.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

My thoughts on how I'll make the strap is with two lightweight pieces of leather sewing one with the diamond bead pattern, then the other piece glued to the back covering the bead stitching and finishing with leather piping on the edge with the beads sewn on at the same time as the edge.

Sounds like that would work pretty well!

 

[andy52]

Sounds like that would work pretty well!

Without seeing the actual bag it's the best I can come up with and I'm sure it will be a very nice looking bag when finished.
My thoughts are to continue the diamond and hair cone motif on the front of the bag.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

Without seeing the actual bag it's the best I can come up with and I'm sure it will be a very nice looking bag when finished.
My thoughts are to continue the diamond and hair cone motif on the front of the bag.

I think it will be an awesome piece!