Leatherman shooting bags?

[DGeraths]

I was thinking about picking up the Leatherman shooting bag, the Eastern Shooting Bag, to be more specific.

Are the bags made well and are they considered "authentic" by most reenactors?

 

[onefeather]

i personally dont think they are but i have not seen every original but i would suggust a private maker or make your own crazy crow trading post has some kits and i have heard of other places having kits i personally just dont like that style it just doesnt look likem it fits for that period

 

[Bob Riegl]

I find that the work from the Leatherman is outstanding and well constructed---with decent prices. How PC ( Ugh I Hate That Word) it would be with machine sewing that's for one to personally decide. I have several items he has made from Possibles bag, neck knife and pouch, hunter's bag---frankly it looks professionally made not necessarily close to a "hand made & sewn " look. It fits me to a "T" and I have used the bag for several years now I think it would take a lifetime to give that "worn" look it is so well made. :imo:

 

[DGeraths]

How PC ( Ugh I Hate That Word) it would be with machine sewing that's for one to personally decide. ---frankly it looks professionally made not necessarily close to a "hand made & sewn " look.

Now you have brought up an interesting point. :hmm:

In 20+ years in the exhibit business, I have had the privilege to hold and examine items from all kinds of time periods, from the Civil War to the Crusades, and you might be surprised at how precise hand stitching can be.
For instance, I once got the opportunity to examine a leather shot bag that was dated to around 1740. The bag was made from about 8 pieces of leather strip. The stitching on this bag looked remarkably like something done on a sewing machine.
The same kind of perfect stitching can be seen in nearly every example of clothing, shoes, etc, from the time.

I think that some have become so used to the less than perfect workmanship of modern hobby craftsmen that they associate that same look with authentic construction.

The machine stitching on the leatherman bag is not that much of a concern for me, whether or not the design is authentic is a concern. From what I can tell, it seems to be very authentic in design and cut, but then again, there seems to be little that is not authentic. The remaining examples of authentic shooting bags from the time show significant variations in design and style! Just imagine what the range of styles would be if all the bags that have been lost through the years still remained. Wow! :shocking:

Dana

 

[onefeather]

hey just do whay you want to do man

 

[DGeraths]

I just looked at the kits at Crazy Crow, Aren't those the same kits that Tandy leather and places like that carry? I am pretty sure those are the same kind of kits that I sometimes see at gun shows, etc..

Does anyone know of a website that shows good photographic examples of shooting bags from the mid to late 18th century?

Dana

 

[Maestro]

Here are some reputable makers:
Jeanne McDonald
Ken Scott
Ed Wilde
Track Of The Wolf has some nice ones.
Rev. Flamin' Harry
Also, check the Links section of this forum.

 

[sidelock]

Right on DGaraths. I am not a pro leather man-- only do things for myself-- belts,bags,slings,holsters, etc etc. All double stitched (two needles). Without exception folks who see my work ask who did the sewing for me. Its easy to do quality work if you take your time. :agree: :imo:

 

[DGeraths]

Right on DGaraths. I am not a pro leather man-- only do things for myself-- belts,bags,slings,holsters, etc etc. All double stitched (two needles). Without exception folks who see my work ask who did the sewing for me. Its easy to do quality work if you take your time. :agree: :imo:

Exactly, and at no time was that kind of quality more important and more prevalent than before the advent of the sewing machine. I looked through some of the photos in the links listed above and none of them really look like the original bags I have examined. In fact, most of them seem like they were made specifically to look "sloppy" or worn out.
This technique of replication works fine when you are trying to replicate a bag that is more than two centuries old and make it look as it does today. I use that kind of focus all the time in my work. Once in a while a museum client will contact me and will need an artifact replicated. But items such as that are designed to replicate the artifacts as they look today, not what they would have looked like 200 years ago. The difference is extreme in most cases.

The Leatherman bags still seem to be the most logical choice for me I think. The workmanship seems to be absolutely top notch, the style looks to be quite authentic and above all, they look new, not two centuries old. ::

Maestro, thanks for the links. Some of those bags were interesting. I wonder how many are based on original examples and how many were creations of their own?


Dana

 

[Bob Riegl]

As I said above---I think the Leatherman Pouches and Bags are spectacular in appearance and construction. I do not think he would knowingly produce an item that would not be authentic in appearance. I know that my departed wife could sew better by hand than with a machine. Her work was IMHO better than machine type sewing. She learned from her European trained seamstress mother, who also was quite magical with her ability. :m2c:

 

[Stophel]

The Leatherman bags are well made. They smell bad though...chrome tan leather.

The designs on the other hand, well, that's the contentious point. This basic form is taken from innumerable German hunting bags from the mid 19th century. They really are neat. Often with hair on the flap and also oftimes with deer dewclaws on them. Sometimes they have a knotted game bag on the front. This basic style and form of bag was used well into the 20th century, and can be found with loops inside for shotgun shells.

SO FAR, I have been unable to "verify" their existence before about, say, 1830. All the 18th century German pictures of hunters I have (the ones that have bags at all, anyway) have plain squarish type bags of ordinary construction. One is a hair-on bag. There are two other forms of 18th century German bag, both related to the earlier "geldkatze". The main one is a nicely shaped bag with a clamshell opening, like a lady's purse. I doubt that any of this form made it here.

I have ONE 18th century picture that has a hunter with a bag that COULD be of the basic form in question. (overlaid flap with the curved top and rings for the strap attachment). It's very hard to say, but the drawing is intriguing... :hmm:

 

[gordy]

I often wonder why so many want all their gear to look 200 years + old. It seems that a person of the times would be proud to display the fact that they coud have newer quality items. Also most folks tended to take care of thease items.And I agree that most folks that could sew, sewed extremely well.There is no doubt that many items were made to fill-in when the need arose in the field,on a hunt or in the military.That dosn't mean that all items should be crudely made to be PC.Many of the old horns ranged from primative to fine art.This is just a point to ponder and My pernsonal opinion.With my equipment I enjoy keeping it in the best possible condition.I need to add that I believe the items should be used and not wrapped in Seran wrap.guns will be dropped and banged into rocks trees Ect.The other gear will be soaked and dragged in the mudd snagged on limbs Etc. the point being that an attempt should be made to keep them in the best repair possible.

 

[fatboy]

I have one of his bags fur on the flap and love it . One of my friends turned me on to him and he makes good stuff .

 

[Bob J]

I agree with Gordy. Most of the stuff colonists, pioneers, and mountainmen used weren't aged with a fine patina until years and years of use (and maybe passed down a generation or two :. I prefer something that looks original as it might have been THEN, and let it naturally age as its used, while still keeping it in best condition as possible. The nicks, darkened color, etc. should be earned and add to its character, whether its boots, shootin' bag, favorite rifle or shotgun. :m2c:

 

[Bob J]

BTW, David Esau made me a very nice dark leather bag to go with my Tennessee .36 flinter. I'll try to post photo sometime. His work is excellent and price reasonable.

 

[thehorn]

I have a leatherman bag that I got at Dixon's 3 summers ago and like it very much. However, after seeing the bags sold by Triple "J" Trade Co., I'm impresed with their quality and old time looks. Here's the website for their bags:
Triple J bags

 

[Alpenjager]

The Leatherman bags are well made. They smell bad though...chrome tan leather.

I agree with Fatdutchman, they do have a strong leather odor to them. I received a Leatherman

 

[colonialgirl]

Does anyone have any pics of hunting bags made from brain tan leather? I'd like to make one that is correct for the mid 1700's. Email them to me at [email protected]

 

[Okwaho]

First of all I have only seen one bag{see Rev. War bag and horn below} that can be safely dated to the mid 18th century.Surviving brain tan bags were almost exclusively used by natives and are invariably decorated with quill work in that period and later with bead work.Quillwork from early North Carolina is highly doubtful although Timberlake and others have mentioned it among the Cherokee.It is questionable as to how common these bags were.Many students feel that the highly quill decorated and black/dark brown dyed bags were used primarily as ceremonial objects such as the Midewiwin among the Ojibway of the Great Lakes.If a Native carried a shoulder bag for hunting or warfare,I suspect it would be more likely a fingerwoven bag with some quill or beadwork.A caveat here is that quillwork is seldom seen in the South and Southeast since these areas would be south of the porcupine's range.

As to bags carried by Whites I think brain tan bags would be fairly uncommon on the early frontier.Whites did some brain tanning I'm sure but I think bark and vegetable tanning would be more commonly used and it would be more likely to be leather from cattle or pigs

I also think hunting bags were fairly small and slightly longer than wide and were almost square."D" shaped and kidney flapped bags are much later.Madison Grant in "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" illustrates two bags which could be 18th century{Plates 5,7} and one {plate 6}carried in the Revolutionary War.No.5 is made from tanned pigskin and is Northern. Note that two of the three bags have separate horn straps.I believe this arrangement allowed a soldier/militiaman to turn in his horn by itself for refilling by the unit armorer. I also believe this is why many otherwise plain horns have the owner's name carved on it.On No.5 the securing of the horn to the bag may have done later.

I do not doubt that there were brain tanned bags made and carried by Whites in the early to mid 18th century in your area,I just think they would be rather uncommon.
Tom Patton :m2c:

 

[mrd74]

Having had some experience in making shooting bags I would like to say that other than the obvious quality of Leatherman shooting bags, what I really like is the signature of his style. What I mean to say is that his work is recognizable by his design and the execution of it. Some bag makers produce amazing one of a kind museum quality work, aged to perfection but at a much higher cost, not to mention long waiting lists. Also a lot of bags today are not designed for repetitive loading which is a necessary requirement for many primitive shooting competitions. Leatherman bags are of functional design to be used not just worn. It is more than obvious that they are designed for ease of loading be it in the field or the firing line.If I were in the market for a quality "using" shooting bag, Leathermans would be my first choice.And for those of you that don't know it, he should be charging a lot more for them.
Mike Doyle
Humber Valley Traders Ltd.