Leavin' 'em loaded

[Tom A Hawk]

I am in France, came from England. Violent crime is not really an issue in either to the point any one believes carrying a firearm is even remotely required or wanted. Most of the violent stuff is thug on thug so normal folk really have no issues.
Not sure what rights of mine are actually limited?

Perhaps self defense against unprovoked attack? Paris knife attack injures at least 2, suspect arrested after brief manhunt

 

[Tom A Hawk]

How are these sights fixed to the barrel?

There is a radius cut in the barrel into which the sight is driven. It is retained by interference fit.

 

[Mulebrain]

I have an 1851 Navy, been loaded for about seven years. I will test it someday, but have no doubt it will go bang

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Well, yes Europe is really a safe place overall. The safest areas are probably the Donbass and Kosovo where everybody goes around with an AK-47. Of course you might be unlucky enough to libe in the UK where Police officer shot dead at station in Croydon - latest updates or in France where Two injured in Paris knife attack in 'terror attack' near the former offices of Charlie Hebdo. Both a from today. Agreed that not every day is as bad as today a cap and ball revolver might still be better than nothing in trying to save one's life.

There are of course better weapons, but anything is better than nothing. A swordcane would do and in a pinch even a stick (I do carry a hefty walking stick with me) or a stone.

 

[Carl in France]

So you believe people have a right to live? Well then how can you argue they have no right to defend that life?

When one will be arrested for carrying or even using a self defense tool, then yes, their right to remain alive has been removed.

No one is prevented from protecting life, in the Uk there is S3 of the Criminal Law Act that covers this but you are saying what? If some one can not carry a gun then they are denied the right to life?
The culture is very different to yours, i would never say that your right to life is denied because people are carrying guns!

 

[Carl in France]

Perhaps self defense against unprovoked attack? Paris knife attack injures at least 2, suspect arrested after brief manhunt

Self defence is allowed in law.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Self defence is allowed in law.

What legal weapon will you use against a machete??? Pop a champagne cork in his eye?

 

[Carl in France]

Ok, in your scenario. In 1987 a man came at me with a machete, i picked up and hit him with a chair he ended up in hospital. I still smile today!
Self defence is not all about guns, situational awareness is the most important factor. Plus differing societies have differing solutions the common carriage of firearms also brings its own problems.
Please do not get me wrong here, should i live where there was a need then i would not hesitate to carry.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Ok, in your scenario. In 1987 a man came at me with a machete, i picked up and hit him with a chair he ended up in hospital. I still smile today!
Self defence is not all about guns, situational awareness is the most important factor. Plus differing societies have differing solutions the common carriage of firearms also brings its own problems.
Please do not get me wrong here, should i live where there was a need then i would not hesitate to carry.

The chair is an excellent, improvised defense weapon. However, it is difficult to conceal well in summer clothing.

 

[Carl in France]

True....shooting stick maybe!

The problem with this discussion will always be that of culture history and need. You are in a very different environment that you deem requires a firearm on your person. This is a choice i can have no valid input in as i do not live there nor do i know of your background and reasoning that lead to your choice. Conversely the same is true of my location in relation to your thoughts on my need.
This is actually why i love travelling, the world is massive, cultures differ and all is interesting.

I always seek to shoot when i travel and one thing that is true is that when you get out with people and firearms on a range or hunt everyone enjoys themself and smiles...never more so than with black powder....well maybe with full auto!

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Ok, in your scenario. In 1987 a man came at me with a machete, i picked up and hit him with a chair he ended up in hospital. I still smile today!
Self defence is not all about guns, situational awareness is the most important factor. Plus differing societies have differing solutions the common carriage of firearms also brings its own problems.
Please do not get me wrong here, should i live where there was a need then i would not hesitate to carry.

Now tell me how my mother, was supposed to use a chair when she was attacked? Had she not had that revolver, she'd have been ***** and possibly murdered. This was 1963. I wouldn't exist and neither would my siblings, their kids, or their kids' kids.

Your reaction is great, glad it worked for you, but it assumes that "all victims need to do is pay attention and by physically fit." Not everyone is physically capable of fighting off an attacker and frankly, you got lucky. Had that been your wife, or say your mother, or anyone else less physically able, and you'd be pushing a machete ban.

A firearm is simply the best tool for defense. "God created man but Samuel Colt made man equal" is true. A firearm is the easiest tool to master, not requiring extensive training and physical ability, to put the the weak, the very old, or the one on a par with the strong, the young, and the many. A 90 pound woman, by herself, who never exercises, is just as lethal as a mob of 18 year olds bent on burning down her house.

By the time you realize you need a gun, it's going to be too late for you to get one. What we mourn is not your choice to be unarmed, you certainly have the right to go about without arms, but what we mourn is your leadership demands it, all while your taxes provide their security with the best arms possible. However, that's one of the reasons America was founded, to escape that injustice.

 

[Carl in France]

Ok Greg, we are not on the same page. You are arguing a position from one country that really does not apply in another, there is no injustice in our needs differing from yours. I would not ever state that you do not have the need, i do not live there.
Cheers.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

The chair is an excellent, improvised defense weapon. However, it is difficult to conceal well in summer clothing.

Why conceal? Open carry of chairs!

Now if we really want to get into a pointless discussion, nothing ticks off the anti gunner and pro-gunner alike than the subject of open carry. I go both ways though.....I both conceal and open carry but not at the same time.

 

[Crow-Feather]

My Uberti NMA has been totally reliable and a round ball on top of 35 grains 3Fg is NOT to be trifled with. Almost all self defense encounters are over in 3 shots or less according to the FBI shooting statistics. I have full confidence in mine for the job as well.

I believe that the average is 3 three shots, but it is an average. Many are over in one shot and in some, a reload is needed or more than six shots are used. Don't reload, get two more.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Why conceal? Open carry of chairs!

Now if we really want to get into a pointless discussion, nothing ticks off the anti gunner and pro-gunner alike than the subject of open carry. I go both ways though.....I both conceal and open carry but not at the same time.

My state has concealed carry without a license. I have heard of no incidents where this has caused problems. Everybody is too afraid that the other person is packin.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Carl in France,

So no one has ever been victimized in either England or France while they were denied the use of arms? We both know that isn't true.

The different pages we are on are from different books. You were raised to believe that neither you nor any common man can be trusted with lethal force. Your king and queen, on the other hand, or those in uniform, or those hired to protect the wealthy.......they can be. This is accepted as "fact."

I know three English x-patriots and all three are opposed to owning a weapon, although they moved to a state with a very high percentage of gun ownership and gun carry. It's just how they were raised, it was drilled into them, and lessons taught from childhood are hard to overcome.

 

[Carl in France]

Greg, i will step away from the conversation, you are steping out from discussion into random statements.
Cheers all.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Centre fire works first time every time.

Well - That's one thing we do agree on.
One should always use the best tool available when it comes to self defence and protecting ones family and possessions.
For me - It will not be white smoke and will not be limited to 6 shots with a 10 minute reload time.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

My state has concealed carry without a license. I have heard of no incidents where this has caused problems. Everybody is too afraid that the other person is packin.

John Lot wrote a great book on the subject of how violent crime rates go down whenever a state eases restrictions on gun carry. My own state passed Constitutional Carry (concealed carry without the tax---I mean "license") in 2014 I believe. Our state had one of the lowest violent crime rates to begin with and then it went down yet again! I recall the local sheriff (a personal friend of mine who I generally hold in high esteem) get all bent-out-shape over the bill's advocacy claiming "crime will go up!" and then crime went down. In this state, concealed carry permit fees go directly to the country sheriff and they can use it for anything, including buying themselves a new house. One sheriff uses the fees to pay for his private pilot license training. Justify that one.

Oddly enough, I guess due to the news coverage, concealed carry permit applications went up also. A CCW is still needed for carry into other states. The one time I let my permit run out was after Constitutional Carry passed and I'd conceal carry to the state line, put the weapon on the dashboard, and continue the drive into a neighboring state. I stopped at a gas station, put on a retention holster, and open carried while there to be in compliance with the law. I did get a weird look from a woman inside the Chick Fi Lay line and one guy at a gas station gave me a very nice compliment. It was along the lines of "thanks for carrying, if something happens you can do something about it."

 

[Griz44Mag]

Well, yes Europe is really a safe place overall. The safest areas are probably the Donbass and Kosovo where everybody goes around with an AK-47. Of course you might be unlucky enough to libe in the UK where Police officer shot dead at station in Croydon - latest updates or in France where Two injured in Paris knife attack in 'terror attack' near the former offices of Charlie Hebdo. Both a from today. Agreed that not every day is as bad as today a cap and ball revolver might still be better than nothing in trying to save one's life.

There are of course better weapons, but anything is better than nothing. A swordcane would do and in a pinch even a stick (I do carry a hefty walking stick with me) or a stone.

A 3 minute internet search produced way over one hundred violent acts in "safe" Europe in the last 7 days. Individuals, terrorists, robberies, domestic violence - and the list goes on.
I don't see anything any safer there than any densely populated area in any modern city or country. But the well trained sheep believe it because the shepard said it. and the sheep follow whatever directions the shepard gives them, all the way to the shearing barn for their wool or to the table as mutton or chops.