Lehigh Valley Rifles

[SgtErv]

Greetings,

(This may be in the wrong section, forgive me if it is).

I've been doing a lot of research to find a rifle that fits exactly what I want. I've pinned it down to the Lehigh Valley school, like Rupp but a little earlier. The graceful curves, I think, are a work of art.

Do you all have any examples of these rifles in your collection? How did you go about purchasing one? Do you have specific recommendations for builders or vendors?

Thanks. I know it's open ended, just trying to make as much of an informed decision as I can.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The two best Lehigh rifle builders that I know are Allen Martin and Eric von Aschwege. Do a google search for "allen martin rifles" and "neahkahnie flintlocks". Eric now works at the gunshop in Colonial Williamsburg. Ron Luckenbill also does a great Lehigh.

dave

 

[Khufu]

see if you can shoot one before investing, I wanted one too yill I fired one, the drop in the stock is too much for me and I had to assume an uncomfortable posture to shoot it. Pretty rifle, but did not fit me. some have said they fit well, so I sugest try before you buy

 

[SgtErv]

That's something I've thought about a little. Just curious, are you average size? There is a show near me soon that'll have some examples, so I'll get to handle some as well.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'd found one of those and I'll look into the other.

 

[Stophel]

Add Eric Kettenburg to that list.... and put him near the top!

There are only a handful of gunsmiths that regularly (or even irregularly) build Lehigh rifles that are anywhere near right. Frankly, most contemporary attempts that I see are... bad.

I've done a couple. They ain't easy. It takes years of study, tons of money to do that study, and lots of work to get it right (which is true of any type of gun, but ESPECIALLY true of Lehigh guns).

 

[wulf]

I made a Rupp and like it very much but never shot
it and I don't really know why...I'd add a picture
but my computer refuses.I'm working on sending to
photo bucket...

 

[Khufu]

I am 6'2" and 240 lbs, with a 14" length of pull, there is so much drop in the stock I have to droop my shoulder a little, it was just not a comfortable posture. But I do like the look.

 

[Dane]

Spot on for suggested builders. These are THE BEST.
This is the Busty Brunette, a Rupp styled, Allen Martin made beauty.
As far as drop.....not all are the same, or have extreme drop.

Everyone seems to want to throw all Lehighs together, but remember there were many builders, each with his own style.

Find a builder, figure out which one you like best, and go for it.
You'll never regret it.
There's just something special about the style.

 

[SgtErv]

Yessir that is a fine rifle. I agree that there's just something about the style that's remarkable.

I'm 5'10" 150, and I've found most rifles are a good fit. Haven't had to pass anything up. I'll keep it in mind though, and certainly wouldn't buy anything until I had an opportunity to get a feel for it. An upcoming show will be a great opportunity to do that

 

[kodiakmarine]

I, too, like the early Lehighs. With their beautiful curves and thick wrists they are works of art intended for rugged use. As far as drop is concerned, you should be able to find someting that fits well. It's sort of like shooting from the upper arm or the shoulder. We are all put together differently. What works for one doesn't always work for another. A knowledgeable an skilled builder will be able to make something pleasing to shoot and to look at. Good luck. - John :thumbsup:

 

[wulf]

Exactly....right on.
Wulf

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Take a look at the Buck's County rifles also. They were just south of Lehigh and are often considered a subset of Lehigh rifles. They have an even more graceful bottom line curve to the buttstock than the Lehigh Valley rifles. Unlike the Lehigh Valley rifle, which has a stepped curve on the bottom line of the stock, it is one continuous curve. By stepped I mean look at how the stock curves through the trigger and then comes back up and starts a second continuous curve on the buttstock on the Lehigh Valley rifle. The Buck's County rifles are one continuous curve through the trigger and buttstock.

The Buck's County is also interesting because it's the only longrifle that the patchbox opens down instead of to the side. Some well known original gunsmiths of Buck's County rifles were Andrew Verner (Richland Twp.), George Weiker (Quakertown), and John Shuler (Milford Twp.).

I always liked the the Lehigh until I saw a well made Buck's county rifle. I have a friend who is a blacksmith by trade and a gun maker as a hobby and is meticulously historically correct in his work. I was considering buying the Buck's County rifle he built, but opted for my Early Lancaster instead because it was $400 less and I could also use it in F&I reenactments, which I participated in a few times a year. The Buck's County was definitely a Rev War era rifle.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Vaino]

Not many builders are able to build a Lehigh correctly, so the few that can do so charge accordingly....they don't over charge, but don't give cut rate prices. Also...the delivery times are normally far out.

A big mistake would be made if price and/or delivery are foremost ...most hobby builders offer lower prices, but their Lehighs probably aren't correct. Dane's Lehighs are an exception.

Bucks County LRs are probably slightly easier to build than Lehighs, but do have their own intricacies to contend with.

The side opening Pboxes are mainly used on BC LRs and I personally like the BC buttstock curves better than the Lehighs. Like the fully evolved Lehighs, the fully evolved Bucks County LRs are much later than the Rev. War....in fact, I don't think either style was in existence at the tome of the Rev. War or were non-recognizable because the main features hadn't fully evolved.....Fred

 

[SgtErv]

I see what you all mean by the curve lines, especially how the Lehighs are 'stepped.' Thanks for the examples.

Looking to perhaps do a 1770s impression at some point, so may be rethinking some choices. Certainly better to do lots of research than not. Your all's expertise is very much valued by me.

I've read that a lot of the earlier styles were less "evolved." I was under the impression that this term mainly concerned elaborateness and ornate aspects of the work as opposed to general lines of curvature and such. Is this an incorrect assumption?

If correct, what features would the earliest examples lack?

This is one of the sources that allowed me to wrap my head around the different schools:
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/parifleschools.htm

 

[SgtErv]

Ah, and a hearty thank you for the help. I am fascinated by this stuff!

 

[Vaino]

Neither the fully evolved Lehighs or the Bucks County LRs were present in the 1770s.....perhaps some would have had some features of the 2 styles, but generally wouldn't be recognizable as such.

Lancasters and Yorks would have been more evident in the 1770s.....this is a fairly early time for fully evolved LRs of whatever style or "school".....Fred

A Lancaster that I made and think is from a fairly early time.....

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I am sorry to say SgtErv that the web site to which you linked is not very good for learning about American long rifles. The examples they show are not very good at all for identifying schools. Instead, google search for sites by Eric Kettenburg, Bill Shipman, Allen Martin, or R. A. Luckenbill to see correctly styled and labeled examples of many long rifle schools. Also Shumway's "Rifles in Colonial America" and Hansen's "Intimate Look at the American Longrifle" are key books to study. For a 1770's period you would do best thinking of early Lancaster, Christian's Spring, Berks, Bethlehem, Allentown, and York-made guns. The fully evolved Lehighs and Bucks guns were from 1785 and later. The first photos below show a gun that might have been made near Bethlehem, PA in the 1770s. The second group of photos shows a gun that might have been made in Reading (Berks), PA in the 1770s. The Bethlehem gun shows some Lehigh school features but is much more robustly made.

dave

 

[SgtErv]

This is making much more sense now. Thanks for pointing out the relative inaccuracy of that site and pointing me in the right direction. I'll be doing some more guided research now

 

[Vaino]

Take heed of what Dave Person says....very knowledgeable builder of the beautiful LRs shown. Have never come across a "person" who knows so much about early American arms.....Fred

 

[kodiakmarine]

I know this is not what you asked about, but have you considered building your own rifle? Jim Chambers, Link has a kit for a beautiful 1770s York County rifle. The components are all high quality, and there are excellent instructional videos available. Just a thought. Good luck with whatever you do. - John