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d.thomson

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I'm At the stage that I'm ready to cut for the butt cap I was wondering how many inches from the main trigger to the butt cap. Is this measured from the toe the heel or the center of the butt? I'm 5'10" 200 lbs not fat if that helps. Thanks for any feed back :hatsoff: . Regards Fisher King.
 
fisher king, +-14" is just about standard LOP. However if you need a more specific diemsions for yourself, the easiest way you could measure it, is by mounting and cheeking the gun as if ready to fire. Ideally there should be about 1" - 1 1/4" between your nose and your thumb. With this measurement you will need some assistance from someone else. Hope it helps
 
And its measured from the curve of the trigger to where your shoulder will be cradled in the buttplate.
 
L.O.P. is measured from the front of the middle of the front trigger, to the center of the outer edge of the Middle of the buttplate.

You have to decide what LOP is appropriate for you, not what others think or whatever & you cannot determine it by height or weight, because everyone has difl length arms, dif ways of shouldering the rifle, etc. Also depends on what, when, you are going to shoot it, etc. For deer hunting in cold weather I like a 13 1/2" LOP. But for summer shooting I want a 13 3/4" LOP. and I am 5'10" and 215#. Now I can shoot a longer rifle, but the shorter ones come up easier & don't hang on the clothes.

IMHO, The best thing to do is to shoulder several dif rifles or make a "Try Stock" and adjust it to where it is comfortable & then cut the stock to the appropriate dimension.

For the stock to fit correctly, the normal way to do this is close your eyes, shoulder the rifle facing forward, turn left at the waiste 90 deg. like you will shoot left, open your eyes & "IF" you are looking down the sights dead on with No Adjustment, then the rifle fits you correctly. If you have to move your head or move the gun in any way, then the rifle does not fit you correctly. How close it is will be something you have to decide if you can live with it.

Keep in mind this is normally NOT essential with shooting rifles, cause you will seldom do snap shooting with a rifle, thus it is not required to have a perfect fit. However, shooting upland game, skeet, trap, etc it is best it fit correctly as you usually have no time for adjustments.

:thumbsup:
 
Also I find on a real Hawken or a TN rifle with a long narrow buttplate, I reduce the LOP by 1/4" cause of the long buttplate & you shoulder them differently than you would a Lancaster, etc..
On my TN style rifle, they are 1" taller overall than the Lancasters, just because of the different style of the buttplates, but have the same length barrels..
 
Thanks guys I will have to do some experimenting tonight to see what fits. Mabe I will use the same as on my T/C hawken doner gun I like the whay it comes up. Thanks again and regards Fisher King :hatsoff: :thumbsup:
 
Another way to measure without a try stock is to measure from the first knuckle of your index finger to the inside bend of your elbow.
 
Isn't stock fit as dependent on drop and cast-off as it is on LOP? If so, then merely measuring LOP on a stock that fits you and transferring that dimension to a new stock wouldn't work very well. Or is this just splitting hairs?

Don
 
FK: Are you stocking a hawken style gun with a moon shaped buttplate, or a gun with a flatter, " shotgun style " buttplate?

The half-moon plates are designed to be mounted on your upper arm, and that often brings your nose closer to the wrist, where you can bang yourself in the face during recoil. In those kinds of stocks, I recommend a longer buttplate. Considering where you live, I think you are probably going to be wearing more clothes when shooting, than less. You do have to make allowances for clothing, and more allowances if you are mounting the gun to your upper arm, rather than the pocket in your shoulder. The pocket is between your neck and the ball of your shoulder. If you left your elbow up , the pocket becomes obvious.

I prefer to mount guns in the pocket of my shoulder for lots of reasons. For that reason, I put a shotgun style butt plate on my rifles, even my Hawken! Most but not all hawkens were made with the half moon butt plates, however, or at least that is what I read some time back. For me, it would not matter if No Hawken can be found without a half moon buttplate: I would rather have a gun I can shoot comfortably and well, than one I can't but is historically accurate. My gun also has a LH lock, so the PC police can give me a ticket and continue on with their business. I feel a certain degree of comfort knowing that two hundred years from now, someone is not going to mistake my old gun as being an original Hawkens.

I find a shotgun style butt plate is also easier to mount and dismount without catching on my jacket. I think that if you decided to mount your gun in the pocket of your shoulder, you can consider a shorter LOP. 13 1/2" would be as long as I would want to go, and 13 1/3" would be more like it. However, your prime concern should be keeping that nose away from the knuckle of your hand around that wrist. I don't shoot with the thumb wrapped over the wrist any more, unless its a snap shot at close range, before I have time to lay the thumb down along side the wrist of the stock and on top of my index finger. Grabbing the wrist with your thumb and fingers leads to squeezing the stock, which causes tipping of the barrel, usually towards your face, so that your ball or bullet hits wide of the mark at any distance. It is also a great way to anticipate recoil, causing you to lift your head just before the shot goes off, and shoot high, ususally over the top of the target. Your thumb's job is to cock the hammer. Once that is done, let it rest. That stock is not going to jump out your forehand, or away from your fingers in your right hand.

If you are barrel chested, like many men, you also want to consider adjusting the down pitch to give you more. That is done by cutting the butt at an angle to remove a larger section of the toe of the stock. You measure Down pitch by putting the gun against a vertical wall, butt on the floor, and then measure the distance between the wall and the top of your front sight. Down pitch should be at last 2 1/2 inches for most men. More than 3 inches is not uncommon.

I have found that with the correct down pitch, I can also then shorten the LOP on a gun to under 13 inches, and still mount and shoot the gun well. I stand a little more than 6 feet tall, and weigh over 250 lbs. I have the barrel chest problem, but even with my long neck, I have tried some antique shotguns with LOPs of 12 1/2 inches and DPs of 3 1/2 that came to my eye very quickly when I mounted the guns. And, to my surprise, the fingers on my shooting hand did not feel like they were being cramped because the trigger was so close to my face.

Finally, remember that a gun stock is mounted to your face, so that it is on the side of the face, and not under it. If you are laying your face down on top of the comb, you are going to hurt yourself when that gun goes off. You are also not going to be looking out of your eyes normally down those sights if you lay your face on the top of the stock. That is not good for your eyes or for accuracy. I find that some stocks have combs that are too high, and that is why the shooter is having to lay his face over the top of the stock to get his eye low enough to see down the sights. A stock fitter will measure the distance between your pupil and the bottom of the cheek bone to determine the proper height at comb measurement for you. Again, the stock should be at the side of your face, with you standing, and holding your head sraight up. You mount the gun to bring the gun to your face, and not your face to the gunstock. This usually results in a stock that has more Down Pitch than the shooter has had in other guns, and it may also allow him to shorten that LOP, too.
 
Wow alot more things to think of. I'm going to put a cheek rest on the stock which I will start off high into the comb and take it down to fit trial and error till it fits better to start with more , ya cant put wood back on. thanks Fisher King.P.S. yes I'm stocking a Hawken.
 
I'm curios about cast off is that having the stock run out slightly to the right for right handed shooters. This to the right looking down the barrel. I was planing to do this about 1/16- 1/8 inches. Brings your eye more inline with the sights I figure, and drop hadn't realy thought of that till mentioned. I will have to see what I have to work with. Thanks Fisher King.
 
A 1/4 " of cast off will do a better job for you, In my experience. This will also cause the stock to recoil away from your face, which can be appreciated, too, on those days when you are paying attention to how you mount the gun.

If you have other rifles or shotguns you like to shoot, shoot well, and feel comfortable with, take the four measurements of those guns. ( Down Pitch((Up pitch is really rare, but does exist)), Dor at comb, Drop at heel, and LOP.) Measure the drop at comb and heel by extending a straight edge down the barrel over the stock, and measure from the bottom of the straight edge to the center of the comb, and the back of the heel at the butt plate.

You can use those measurement, with some adjustment for the style of gun you are building, on the new gun stock. They certainly will help you determine who much wood to remove from the comb to be comfortable. Do remember that most modern gun stocks are made much straighter, with less drop at heel and drop at comb, and less down pitch, than older rifles. That is why I suggested that you look at antique guns, as I did, find a couple that come to your shoulder easy, and take measurments of them. A tape measure, and a six inch ruler are all the tools needed to get the measurements when you know how to use them. If you shoot at a local club, ask the shooters who are using Hawken style guns to let you try their guns. Most will be factory built, but event those can teach you about your own needs. Remember, for instance, that a loner LOP will put the weight of the gun further forward in your hands, and make the gun feel more muzzle heavy. A proper LOP will put the gun between your two hands, so that the center point of the entire gun is between your hands, not under your forehand, or, heaven forbid, in front of your forehand! That would make a rifle that is very difficult to hold steady for off-hand shooting. That half moon buttplate is not made for shooting from a prone position.
 
Don B: No, you are not splitting hairs, and you are correct in stating that just measuring the LOP & using that measurement will not necessarily make the stock fit.

However, at the time I responded he didn't ask about the other factors or measurements, he just asked about measuring LOP.

:thumbsup:
 
ActualyI didn't know to ask :redface: But some of the guys had stated that this was don so I took it from there. If I have the room I will try to put a quarter inch cast off and about the drop I will probably stay with what T/C has used' it fit me preaty good. Thanks again :hatsoff: Fisher King.
 
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