Let's chat about files

[Davemuzz]

Well, I'm working on a Lehman flinter. I've cleaned up the lock that I want to use and now I'm moving on to the butt plate, trigger guard, forend cap, etc.

I know that my current "eclectic" gathering of metal files are not going to do the job......or I should say not going to do the job with ease.

I've read where Nicholson files are reasonable priced and will make "quick work" of taking down cast metal's without me swearing at an object that can't comprehend!! :yakyak:

So, I believe that the "double cut" file will help file down castings faster, followed by a "single cut" file that will take finer "cuts" of metal and not put gouge's in the metal. (When used properly)

So, I'm going to buy a few double cut files along with a few single cut files to help me do the job on the casting that I got, and to also draw file the barrel before I move on to browning.

If I read the Nicholson guide to files correctly, the single cut file would be the best tool to draw file the barrel.

Thoughts and input from the "brain trust" (That's you guys) would be helpful.

Thanks!! :hatsoff:

 

[MSW]

if i remember correctly (rather a big "if" at this time of night) i got excellent results from a single cut file when i went to draw file a barrel. run some sidewalk chalk into the teeth of the file before you start - this will keep them from clogging. move the file, so you're only using one area, then go on to the next. card the file often. you may want to check out The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander (available from Track of the Wolf for about forty bucks... here's a link https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/321/1/BOOK-GGC
good luck with your project!

 

[Vaino]

Don't forget the scrapers for brass...some of the investment cast pasts I use don't require a whole lot of mat'l removal as do sand cast parts and a scraper can be used for most of the surfaces followed by 220 grit paper and steel wool.

Double cut files remove mat'l faster than single cuts, but also produce a rougher finish which requires a go over w/ a single cut file. The scrapers yield a much smoother surface.

Buttplates are prime candidates for a scraper and save a lot of time. When I've used double cut files ,the roughness is taken off w/ scrapers.

On a curved surface as on a buttplate, the scraper should be held at an angle so grooves aren't cut in. A sharp scraper removes a lot of brass quickly......Fred

The flats on the finials of TGs lend themselves to scraping as do the bows, even if rounded. .......Fred

 

[M. De Land]

I've draw filed a pile of barrels over the last almost four decades with specialty single cut draw files always using chalk and have yet to find a file ,not matter how scrupulously carded, does not leave gall scratches to some extent. These will have to be sanded out if one wants a perfect finish which many muzzle loading builders do not bother with.
I have also discovered the use of a barrel spinning fixture to be the best friend of a draw filer, especially when working octagons.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I recommend sending your files off to Bogg's tool to be resharpened, they come back as good as new.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

I did not know that this could be done. Thank you for posting this.

 

[crockett]

Yeah- chalk the file, use a different part of the file for each stroke- so sometimes you can make three passes, then use a brush on the teeth and chalk again. If you gouge the work you have to start all over again.
On sand paper. Rather than wrap loosely around a steel bar, try using Elmer's Glue (not waterproof) and gluing the sandpaper to the bar, you get a much better (flatter) finish. When the paper wears out soak and pull it off and glue on another piece.

 

[Davemuzz]

Great!! Way more information that I thought. I was not aware of using chalk to keep the file from getting clogged. I always "mumbled" and carded the file often....very often!

Fred, thanks for the tip on using a scraper. I assume your talking about brass. This build I have no brass on. Just metal. However...you never know if a brass build will strike my fancy.

Great tips on file sharpening. I just though once they wore out.....that was it!

Good info on the draw filing of a barrel and gluing sandpaper to a flat! I never would have thought of that.

All great tips. Thanks guys. I'm certain newbies in the future will want to know these tips as well. A quick forum search will bring this thread up.

And if you have more tips.....keep 'em coming!! :hatsoff:

 

[Hairy Clipper]

Great ideas ... Thanks!

 

[M. De Land]

The reason a barrel spinner helps out so much is because of it's ability to rotate under your file pressure and keep it flat against the barrel flat which is very hard to do consistently if locked in a vice while making long draws.
Try it, it will make a believer out of you in short order.
It also works nearly as well with a round barrel although one must keep it from spinning with a make shift brake lever while making the draw by a bit of friction applied from the underside while locked into the vice jaws

 

[Zonie]

Follow this link about files. It might be interesting.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/9066/post/9066/fromsearch/1/

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

When I first started this hobby my first thought was , Files I Need Lots O Files. Now I use finishing stones not cheaper but much faster and when you put the stone down on the bench your item is polished.

 

[M. De Land]

Interesting, could you furnish some information and perhaps pictures of the stones used and where they are to be had.
I have wet stones for various work but have never used them for barrel flat reduction and finish.
After draw filing I use sand paper on steel plates for finish sanding.
I quite often use diamond files for sharpening lathe and milling tools and also have two grades of diamond paste on had for making specialty lapping tools.

 

[Davemuzz]

Thanks Zonie. You made that post way back......waaaaaaaay back in 2004.

Man......are you that old? :blah: :rotf: :rotf:

(Actually, I could be older than you!!)

 

[muzzy]

Great!! Way more information that I thought. I was not aware of using chalk to keep the file from getting clogged. I always "mumbled" and carded the file often....very often!

Fred, thanks for the tip on using a scraper. I assume your talking about brass. This build I have no brass on. Just metal. However...you never know if a brass build will strike my fancy.

Great tips on file sharpening. I just though once they wore out.....that was it!

Good info on the draw filing of a barrel and gluing sandpaper to a flat! I never would have thought of that.

All great tips. Thanks guys. I'm certain newbies in the future will want to know these tips as well. A quick forum search will bring this thread up.

And if you have more tips.....keep 'em coming!! :hatsoff:

If anyone needs files there is a guy in Chicago named Slav jeleselevich. Slav buys out old hardware stores and industrial supply houses. He must have dozens of file patterns no longer made. All are for sale. He also has a ton of starret t stuff. You can reach him at [email protected].

 

[Davemuzz]

Ok,,....one more question. (Really....is there ever only 1 more question?) But.....should I be looking at 6", 8", or 10" files.

I would think at least an 8" file.

I'm looking to add a double cut, and for finish a single cut. I want a better quality file (not necessarily a "corvette") so I'm looking at Grobet's.

Again....Thanks!!

 

[Dane]

Neat idea on the barrel jig. Not necessary though.
I've built well over 100 guns by just using a padded jaw vice. Do one flat, turn the barrel, do the next.
Great idea, but for a guy just building one,.... not so much.

 

[Artificer]

Dave,

Without a doubt THE most general purpose useful file and very reasonable and is available at every hardware store in the country is the Nicholsen 8" "Handy File." I have also seen these described as lawn mower blade files.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-8-in-Blade-Handy-File-06601/100208251

Besides the advantages listed above, the file thickness is the same, all the way along the length of the file. That is very handy for a number of things, including where you can lay the handle flat on top the rear sight and file the top of say a front sight on a pistol, so the top is dead flat and parallel to the top of the rear sight. You can do something similar on the top of a front rifle sight, though you have to have something parallel sided to lay on the barrel and then lay the handle on that, while the cutting edge is on the front sight. ALSO because it is the same thickness all along the cutting surface, you can wrap Emory Cloth around it to further smooth something and/or "hand file grind" a hard steel surface.

There is a smooth/safety edge on one side and the fact one surface is smooth and the other surface is double cut, means you can use either or both sides of the file, depending on the finish you want.

What I have done with these files for over 40 years now is wrap them loosely in cardboard then wrap masking tape around the cardboard to make a "sheath" to protect the files when I am not using them. (Actually do that to many files I own.)

Now I actually keep three of the Handy Files on hand at all times, because I work in many materials. I use a magic marker to write "Plastic/Wood" on one paper sheath, then "Brass" on another and then "Steel" on a third. When the Plastic/Wood one gets a little dull, I transfer it to the Brass Paper Sheath and transfer the one in the Brass Paper Sheath to the Steel Paper sheath. Also, there are times when I'm doing something in steel that requires a very fine finish with new teeth, I just buy a new file for that job. The file is inexpensive enough to do it.

The only "bad" thing about these files is the fact I can not for the life of me figure out how to transform them to half round or three square or other shapes when I need those shapes. :haha:

I have lost track of how many files I own a long time ago, but I use a Handy File much more often than any other file I own.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Here is something else I meant to include, but didn't know best to write it. It is important to file length and that's the reason I think it should be included.

"Most American Pattern files are available in three grades of cut. *******, Second Cut and Smooth. The length of the file also affects the coarseness, regardless of the actual grade. So for example a 6”³ ******* Cut is a lot finer than a 12”³ ******* Cut. This is because the shorter files are generally used for finer work. Overall, the least coarse would be a 4”³ Smooth file and the most coarse would be a 16”³ ******* file. The relationship between the grades of coarseness for each length remains the same."

I'm not a machinist, but have had some machinist training. I'm not sure if real machinists made or still make this point of instruction for apprentices in the use of hand files.

However, this knowledge might come in handy that when you switch to different length files in the same grade of cut, the shorter or longer files would be smoother the shorter the length and the more coarse the longer the length.

Gus

 

[Davemuzz]

Gus,

Thanks. That's good information.

Now.....is there a difference between a "metal" file and a "machinist" file(s)?