Lets talk firestarting

[Tom A Hawk]

Here is an odd one that I learned at a knap-in.

Rolling friction fire.

 

[DuncNZ]

Now I have seen it all , who thought that one up and why ?

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Now I have seen it all , who thought that one up and why ?

Rumor has it this technique was discovered in a German WWII POW camp as a way to light cigarettes.

 

[Two Feathers]

I don’t consider a candle stub a cheater. Was out on a trek in January, it had snowed two days before been cold and then warmer. Everything was wet. I set two fires. The first just wouldn’t catch. So our comes a candle stub. And soon I had a nice little blaze going though it sounded like popcorn.
What would have old timers done in this situation?
Well they would have said ‘no game or ***** will be movin’ today.’ And stayed warm and dry in camp or cabin. If they had to be out and about I have no doubt but they would have a stub, or greased dry stuff in their fire kit or some sort of ‘cheater’.
We take a lot of pride being wet and cold and bulling our way through, the old boys knew the value of a roof and fireplace in nasty wet weather.

Howdy folks:
Two Feathers here with my $0.02. Just my thoughts on this "Cheater" thing?
From all the historical documents I've read, and what I've learned here, the Mountain Men or "old timers" as y'all call them, were very resourceful and took advantage of anything they could utilize to achieve their goal? That being said, I believe ANY naturally occuring materials, be it char cloth or left over Bee's Wax candle stubs, (both PC) would have helped them achieve their goal. I don't think the term "Cheater" applies to anything one would find to help them stay alive? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and NO ONE knew more about staying alive than those guys! I certainly would frown on a Bic lighter, or some kind of 20th. century accelerant, but the things y'all have named seem very PC to me? Again...just my $0.02
Thanks for lettin' me jump in here. Always a pleasure to read these discussions.
God bless:'
Two Feathers

 

[Two Feathers]

I have to re harden my striker , will a MAPP gas torch get it hot enough to work ? How fast would it need to be quenched , and oil or water or air ?

Howdy:
As a knife maker. I can tell you that quenching in water will make a blade brittle. Brittle is HARD!!!! Your fire steel needs to be HARD, not hold an edge like a knife blade? You're looking for a hard surface, not a springy piece of steel. MAPP is definitely hot enough to do the job! I'll tell you go with water. Use the MAPP torch until bright Cherry Red, quench in water, anneal at 400 degrees for 1 hour, let cool to room temp. in the oven. This should give you about a RC58-60, plenty hard enough for a great striker.
You can always fire up the family Charcoal Grille and bury the striker in the coals for about 30 minutes or until the color is right? The downside to the MAPP torch is being able to get the whole striking area Cherry Red at the same time??
I hope this helps?
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[DuncNZ]

Thanks Two Feathers , I'll get it up to temp in my Log burner fire as soon as it gets cold enough . I have a laser thermometer so I can measure temps fairly accurately

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks Two Feathers , I'll get it up to temp in my Log burner fire as soon as it gets cold enough . I have a laser thermometer so I can measure temps fairly accurately

Cutfinger:
Not a problem. I certainly hope that helped? Please let me know how it turned out.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[user 30283]

As well as my flint and steel, I have good luck with my wooden fire piston also. That used with char cloth works pretty well for me.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

As well as my flint and steel, I have good luck with my wooden fire piston also. That used with char cloth works pretty well for me.

Good for you. String gasket or O ring style?

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

I have to re harden my striker , will a MAPP gas torch get it hot enough to work ? How fast would it need to be quenched , and oil or water or air ?

yes. get it cherry red, and quickly submerge it in oil or water (depends on the type of steel you have, which does better, but either works for steel in general). It'll be glass-hard, so you'll need to anneal it in either an oven set for 575'F for 30min-1hr or take it back to the torch and slowly heat it up till it turns blue, and then the blue starts to go away (575'-625', depending on the steel). That gives the steel it's spring back (so it doesn't shatter if you drop it or say... hit it really hard with a rock). Easy to do. If it's a really low grade of steel (although I believe you said it was an old file), you might have to case harden it, or solder a striking surface of high quality steel to it.

 

[user 30283]

Good for you. String gasket or O ring style?

O ring. works well and amazes people who have never seen one.

 

[waksupi]

A tip for using char cloth.

Fold the char cloth over the edge of the flint where you will be striking it. It doesn't need to be stretched tight. Strike the steel directly through the cloth. Generally, if the char is good, you will have a spark on the cloth on the first strike. This is a pretty common method around here, and a fire in under five seconds is common. In one competition, a guy had flame in three seconds.

 

[toot]

well, where theirs smoak there's fire!

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks Two Feathers , I'll get it up to temp in my Log burner fire as soon as it gets cold enough . I have a laser thermometer so I can measure temps fairly accurately

Cutfinger:
Sounds good. Shoot for 1590 degrees, then follow my procedure. That ought to do it?
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Two Feathers]

Here is an odd one that I learned at a knap-in.

Rolling friction fire.

I watched this and suddenly the words "unbelievably bizarre" popped into my head? Really "NEAT!!!! thanks. Wish I'd had known this in Science class back in the 60's. I would have gotten a better grade.
Two Feathers

 

[BlazingIron]

I watched this and suddenly the words "unbelievably bizarre" popped into my head? Really "NEAT!!!! thanks. Wish I'd had known this in Science class back in the 60's. I would have gotten a better grade.
Two Feathers

I haven’t read the entire thread so if this has already been said, I apologize in advance. I use a hollow reed the act as a sort of bellows on the nascent spark to focus the oxygen directly on the coal.

 

[sheriff john]

In regards to tinder fungus. My daughter is a mushroom pseudo-scientist, so I checked out the "Viking Way To Start Fires". The polypore fungi was known/used by Nordic folks centuries ago. In fact, at least one of the "Bog People" had slivers of it in his pack when he was discovered. They used the inner part of the fungus, cut into slivers, smashed with rocks until it resembled felt, then charred. Vikings went a step further - boiled it in urine which added nitrate. She said the tinder fungus could hole a spark for quite a long time which enabled carrying fire from one spot to another. Don't know. Never fooled with the stuff.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Howdy folks:
Two Feathers here with my $0.02. Just my thoughts on this "Cheater" thing?
From all the historical documents I've read, and what I've learned here, the Mountain Men or "old timers" as y'all call them, were very resourceful and took advantage of anything they could utilize to achieve their goal? That being said, I believe ANY naturally occurring materials, be it char cloth or left over Bee's Wax candle stubs, (both PC) would have helped them achieve their goal.

I thought candles were man made as was char cloth ???

As for the video of the cotton ball and boards....

I guess this would work if one was stranded near a lumber yard to provide the boards and that location also had a first aid kit to provide the rolled cotton, and there had been fire to provide the ashes....???

Let's see this done with raw cotton picked from a cotton plant and some natural wood.

Burning glass, friction with bow & spindle, flint & steel, and fire piston I've tried and that's enough for me......

LD

 

[Red Owl]

Popular thread. I just finished reading "Black Elk Speaks", he was an Ogallala and I was surprised that when they moved camp someone kept a punk wood/fire going. I've read most of the mountain man diaries- they often couldn't strike fire in a rain, etc., so.....old timers had their troubles.
1. Birchbark. For years this was my go to solution. If you pull it off a dead tree it will be in a rolled shape- you can stuff it with shredded bark- wet and the oils, etc. in it will still burn.
2. Magnifying glass- if you haven't tried it, do so. Put some char on the bird's nest, use the lenses and move it in or out so that the bright spot is reduced as much as possible- you'll get an ember in the char in 3 or 4 seconds. Incredible. On a sunny day, what I use.
3. Tinder tube. This is a cotton cord, charred on one end and stuffed into a 1/2" copper pipe/tube that's about 4" long. The cotton cord can be 12" or so. Push the charred end out and use flint or steel or a magnifying lense. To extinguish, pull the burning part into the tube and put your finger over the end to cut off the air.
4. Another thing I'm not sure about. Now a days the tinder box is used to carry things. The mountain men often had a little parfleche pouch about 4" by 6" for the flint and steel. I'm not sure but from some diaries it sounds like these tinder boxes held all sorts of charred material and the flint and steel sent the sparks down on the char. Once it got going the flames were transferred to the campfire and the top of the tinder box put on to extinguish the contents until next time. These tinder boxes could have been used to make char.
5. Flintlock pistol. The mountain men seemed to carry a flintlock pistol after the arrival of percussion rifles. Not certain why. If they ran out of caps I guess the flintlock would work. It is also possible the flint pistol was used to start fires. Plugging the flash hole on a loaded gun and using the mechanism to catch a spark seems really hazardous but they did such. Patches rubbed with powder were sometimes used.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

In regards to tinder fungus. My daughter is a mushroom pseudo-scientist, so I checked out the "Viking Way To Start Fires". The polypore fungi was known/used by Nordic folks centuries ago. In fact, at least one of the "Bog People" had slivers of it in his pack when he was discovered. They used the inner part of the fungus, cut into slivers, smashed with rocks until it resembled felt, then charred. Vikings went a step further - boiled it in urine which added nitrate. She said the tinder fungus could hole a spark for quite a long time which enabled carrying fire from one spot to another. Don't know. Never fooled with the stuff.

I suggest your daughter become acquainted with "True Tinder Fungus", also called chaga, also called inonotus obliquus. It grows mainly on birches and is amazing tinder that requires only drying.