load 5 or 6 chambers

[crockett]

This question comes up from time to time and the safety police often have a field day. I guess it's always fun to take a holier than thou on safety issues.
I'm not certain in historical records that I ever read about a cap and ball pistol being loaded in only 5 chambers; and, I don't think I ever read of any mishap occurring with a CAP AND BALL pistol by loading all six provided the hammer is lowered on a pin and the pin engages the hammer and the hammer spring is strong. All the ammunition packets sold in those days contained six rounds so loading six was the practice on a percussion.
Just because some poke shoots himself in the foot with a cap and ball pistol doesn't justify the "load 5" since even with a load 5 the same thing could have occurred. There is the worry of something brushing against the hammer while it is being carried in a holster and accidentally firing the gun. My pistols fit pretty tight in the holser and I tried to see just how hard a "brush" against the hammer is needed to rotate a cylinder far enough for the hammer to move from pin to cap, pretty hard IMHO.
In any event along came the 1873 Peacemaker- cartirdge gun and a lot of folks were loading all six and putting the hammer down on a live round and that was a BAD THING. Accidents did occur. The "load five and hammer on an empty" doctrine then came about.
Since the percussion looks like the 1873 a lot of folks started advocating a load five on a cap and ball pistol.
Whether you have 5 shots or 6 shots isn't that big an issue so loading just 5 is okay with me although I don't see any big issue with a load 6. Theory is great but real world experiences always count high with me. I have tried to determine whether any accidents have occurred on a CAP AND BALL with a load 6 and if so- what happened. So far I haven't heard about much.
I should note- there's always exceptions to everything. let's say you have a youngster invoved. If they get used to loading 6 in a percussion they might do the same thing on a 1873 Peacemaker- so then you might want to teach them to load just 5.

 

[bob308]

the pratice for a peacemaker is to lower the hammer between the cartage rims. the fireing pin catchs and acts just like a cap and ball with a safety pin.

 

[scott taylor]

As long as the 1873 has a fixed firing pin it might be ok to do that but I wouldn't, the ones with the movable pins 5 only.
For the record all of my cap and balls are loaded with 6 with the pins or notches employed. Pasture use from riding a horse thru brush, working on fence etc for at least 35 years. I tend to carry them butt forward so there is less chance of a limb or brush cocking them.

Scott

 

[rafterob]

That's only 5 yups, I load 6 yups.

 

[Dickydalton]

That was for 5 guns, not chambers. And I just counted again and I have recounted and have nine BP revolvers/pistols and not 5. That dang Duckfoot always chain fires all three barrels at once, too! :rotf:

 

[rafterob]

That was for 5 guns, not chambers

:thumbsup:

 

[MSW]

this is shooting, not Bauhaus architecture: i feel that, in shooting, less is not more- less is less.

in shooting, i want more. therefore, i load all six. i do use the pins or notches, and i've yet to put a hole in anything i didn't intend to ventilate.

you should, however, do what you feel is best in your situation.

just one guy's free opinion, and no doubt well worth the price.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I only load 5 of six chambers, as I was using mine for CAS shooting, and you can only load 5 of 6..., PLUS...,

I found that in all three of my revolvers, as well as in all of the extra cylinders, One of the six always shot a bit less accurate. It was the same one each time in each cylinder, so I pulled the nipple from that chamber in each cylinder as it prevented me from accidentally loading the "poorest" of the chambers, AND gave me an obviously "safe" spot to place the hammer when holstering my revolvers and stepping up from the loading area to the shooting stage to compete.

LD

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Dave, I just got a new Pietta Remmie, and was planning to shoot at 6 different targets from a bench to determine which chambers are the most out of true. When I got my Ruger, a previous owner had marked/engraved numbers on the cylinder to number each chamber. It seems groups fired from number six are slightly larger. With No. 3 shooting groups slightly smaller, but still larger than the other 4.

One match I attended years ago, permitted cap and ball revolvers to compete, but required that only one chamber be loaded and fired at a time, as if the gun were a single shot.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Interesting! I was astounded at the accuracy of the round ball groups from the cheapest of .44 revolvers, brass framed, and I had noticed that I always had one round just a bit outside of the rest of the group. Not a huge difference, but five of the six shots would be touching at 15 feet, with one round just a tad outside of the ragged hole..., then a gunsmith told me to check my chambers, as one of the six was probably consistantly throwing the round "out", then stop using that chamber as I was shooting CAS and didn't need it..., sure enough he was right.

LD

 

[nilo52]

Wulf,
Your killing me :rotf: :rotf:


Nilo52

 

[Poor Private]

I look at it this way. If they didn't want you to load the 6th chamber why drill/mill it out? Why not leave it blank? Also why put in the safety stops/notches? Next if your following it logically.
a-if there is 6 chambers you leave 1 blank hence a 5 shooter
b-if you have a 5 chamber gun(Patterson or one of the pocket guns) do you leave one blank- now a 4 shooter
c-if you have a Kentucky 1 shooter do you leave it blank for safety? Cause you have to have an empty under the hammer.
d- do you leave your Howdah blank while carrying Since both barrels have a hammer?
My reasoning is I carry in a period correct civil war flapped holster the likely hood of something such as a stick, or branch to raise the hammer while I am woods walking is very remote. Also if your carrying in an open top I use a hammer thong to both keep the gun in the holster and to prevent the hammer from come back.
Next lets look at how your pistol works. Go Ahead pick up your pistol. If loading 5 on a 6 shooter, when at rest the hammer lies on a nipple. The cylinder will not turn. When pulled(or forced) back at half cock the cylinder will free-wheel( like russian roulette)and it can land any where, but your on safe, the hammer will not fall. If it gets pulled all the way back it indexes to the next chamber-which will be a active chamber and if the trigger is pulled on purpose or accidently it will fire BANG so whats the purpose of laying on a blank. If your trying to be safe. you should be on a charged chamber and the next one should be the blank. Next If you drop you pistol on the ground which usually happens when you missed your holster when putting it away, it will land point(or front site) down and if it fires will fire straight into the ground-- go ahead test it out. I spent 10 minutes before typing this, by testing it. Dropping it as if missing a holster onto a pillow (unloaded of course) it never ever turned on it's hammer, or on the flat of the pistol. I tested with both a long barrel and short barrel Remington my pistols of choice while woods walking. I also quick tested a coulple of my colts- same way. The only way a hammer lands on the ground is if I am throwing it that way. And if I am throwing my gun the thing is empty and throwing it is my last gasp at defense. Or maybe your using your pistol as hammer(gasp) then the shock may fire the gun, and you deserve what you get( a pistol is not a hammer). Take the time to experiment. It will only take you a few minutes to determine these facts. If your that fumbled fingered as to drop your pistol on a consistant basis maybe it's time you hang up your guns. Remember it's always loaded thats the first thing I was ever taught about any firearm. And treat it as such, and handle it that way.

 

[Dickydalton]

The the the, That's All Folks!!!!! :hatsoff:

 

[crockett]

Poor Private- I agree with you. As I posted, combustible cartridges were used at the time quite a bit- more than we today give credit. The packets for a six shooter always held 6 rounds. I have done quite a bit of reading and all the references about loading only five pertain to the cartridge guns. To date I have never read about loading just five in a cap and ball. I posted some time back on General Robert E. Lee's Colt Navy- sealed with red wax. Seven years after his death someone took the gun and fired it and all six chambers went off. I fully understand the need for safety but I also have this feeling that making a big deal about a nonissue can possibly lead to a casual attitude about all safety issues which would be a bad thing.
As I said I have been trying to find where loading all six caused a mishap because of the all six being loaded- no theories- actual events. I have read of mishaps but not because of loading all six in a cap and ball gun.
As I said, if you have youngsters around, I would probably load five because that instills good habits. They may otherwise forget and put six in a modern/cartridge gun BUT amongst adults- I don't see any harm in loading six- provided there are pins, the gun is in good condition, etc, etc.
And- trying to defend "your position" when it comes to safety is not good. I'm not doing that- I am just trying to get at the truth. If mishaps have occurred- let's share that information and I'll change my view and practice forthwith.

 

[necchi]

,,, General Robert E. Lee's Colt Navy- sealed with red wax. Seven years after his death someone took the gun and fired it and all six chambers went off.

Like a chain fire? Or did all six actualy fire?
Provenance on that incident?
I looka bit and didn't find anything about someone shooting the gun. They must have because they have it in a museum and it's un-loaded,,

 

[cynthialee]

I always load all six. The pins are in good shape and there are no children in this house. The neighbors kids are all either in high school or moved on after graduation.

 

[Cowboy2]

Six for target shooting at the ranch. If I'm BP hunting, the pistol is just for snakes or finishing shots, so I only stick five in it.

 

[Ken Cormier]

5

 

[junkman_01]

If it's a six shooter....6. If it's a five shooter....5.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sooo..., when they went to the trouble of milling six notches between the cylinders on the Remington 1858 for the hammer to rest within, they were stupid, and when they milled pins on the back of the Colt cylinders in many models, again it was stupidity, because you only drop your gun when holstering, and when that happens it lands muzzle down, so if it was to discharge it would be going in a relatively safe direction?

And further there is no other way that a person can have an accidental discharge other than the revolver falling out and landing on the hammer, and revolvers never experience parts wear and tear over time. So nobody ever had a thumb slip off the hammer as they lowered that hammer onto a capped nipple over a loaded chamber. Nobody ever wore goves while handling a loaded revolver, or if they did, the gloves where alway perfectly clean - no grime or nothin', or when not wearing gloves folks never had wet or sweaty hands, and it was never cold and fingers were never stiff, and the stippling or checkering or ridges on the hammer of a Remington or Colt, never wore smoother over time... heck in fact those modifications were just cosmetic on the hammers, and really were unneeded too, as that type of AD never happened.

Just trying to clarify the anecdotal testing with observations of the physical evidence milled or cut into the cylinders and hammers of the revolvers.

OH wait, I know, it was a marketing ploy, because people who never had an accidental discharge (because revolvers don't land on their hammers, nor do the hammers slip when being lowered and strike caps by accident), came to the imagined conclusion (obviously due to mass hysteria) that such an accident not only could happen, but would happen, and so they wouldn't buy the Colt nor Remington products, unless those revolver makers took extra time and money to fashion unnecessary "safety" modificatons on thier guns, thus unnecessarily slowing production time as well as adding to the product price. :hmm:

Really?

LD