load for a little pocket pistol?

[Homesteader]

Hey all. Just for kicks and grins I'm getting one of those little flinter screw barrel pocket pistols. .41 cal, 2-1/2" barrel, box-lock. I understand they're not real screw barrels in the sense that a full load can't be put in that way.

And that's the question: some sources say to load bare ball .410 on top of 25 grains of FFFg, others say to go only with 7 to 10 gr and patch a .395 round ball. I know I won't be able to hit anything but the side of a mountain more than ten feet away, but I would like to get as good a load as I can. Any tips or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Also, do y'all think I could load with small shot for snakes? Kinda a super light .410 shotgun for nasty serpents near my feet? (Since I like most of my poker buddies I don't think I'll use it for those particular snakes.)

I'm guessing a prime of FFFFg of whatever grains seems to spark well.

Thanks again for any help. You all have been a great resource.

 

:grin: :grin: This ought to be good! :grin: :grin:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yup!

 

[Zonie]

If this is the Dixie Screw Barrel Pistol, it is rifled so if you load it with shot, it will spread out rather fast.
I wouldn't want to shoot it at a snake near my foot..more chanch of hitting my foot than the snake.

I see Dixie recommends using 5 grains of 3Fg powder with a .395 ball. They say the bore is .394, grooves at .406 diameter.

As I don't own one, I can't say what the best load would be. I guess part of it depends on whether this is really a screw barrel pistol, or just a look alike.

I believe the "real" screw barrel pistols were loaded by unscrewing the barrel, pouring a little powder into the breach, dropping the ball in on top of the powder and screwing the barrel back on.
If this gun is like that, it will tell you how much powder you can load with the ball and still get the barrel screwed back on like it is supposed to be.

If on the other hand it is a look alike and the barrel is not removable I would think you could use 5-15 grains of powder plus a very lightly patched .395 ball.
Even that might be too tight to load easily with that .394 bore.

If it is a muzzle loader and I were shooting a bare ball, I would want some sort of wadding over the ball to keep it from moving off of the powder charge.
I've heard that hornets nests work good but the hornets might not agree. :grin:

Zonie

 

[mec]

The Pedersoli Liege derringer will hold 9 grains in the chamber with a .451 ball on top. Gets 365 fps with Goex 3f-just enough to go through a 3/4" white pine board.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Even the breech loading derringers with modern .410 shotshells are pretty useless as snake guns. Such short barrels make for very rapid pattern spread and very low velocity. Firing a 2 1/2" shell in a 3" barrel doesn't allow for much acceleration. The situation is even worse with black powder which occupies more barrel space and burns slower. A useful load of powder, wads and shot would fill the barrel to the muzzle.
Derringers were mainly for threat value, no one wants to get shot even "a little bit". With the state of medicine in past centuries little wounds were about as deadly as big ones, they just took alot longer to kill. :grin:

 

[ichabod]

I'd say 10 grains in the little .41, regardless of whether it's a patched ball or bore-sized as in a real screw-barrel.
No less-no more.
-sleepy-

 

[Old Charlie]

I shoot 15 grains of T7 and 35#6 shot in this one. It works pretty well.
Old Charlie

 

[Homesteader]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I do appreciate it, and will let y'all know how it works out once I get it and have a chance to take it to my place.

 

[sdery]

i've got a little .44 percussion that is fun to shoot because you can't hit a thing! It's a laughter inciter. Mine uses .433 balls / 0.10 patches and I have loaded as much as 15 grains of 3F but I miss just as effectively with 10 gr.

 

[JN01]

I had the misfortune of buying one of the pistols you describe from Dixie Gun Works. If yours turns out to be anything like mine, don't worry about loads, you can't fire it anyway.

First of all, when I received the gun, I noted the overall poor workmanship like big gaps where the grips fit to the frame.

On a screw barrel pistol, there should be a chamber at the front of the frame where you pour the powder, place the ball on top of it, then screw the barrel back on. On this thing when you removed the barrel, the metal was flush with the end of the frame with a tiny hole (1/8"?) in the middle. It appeared there was a chamber under this metal, like if you drilled through the top 1/16" you would have a proper chamber. I don't know, there were no instructions included with it.

If I had found a way to load it, there were other problems.

Even the smallest of flints, when placed in the hammer jaws, prevented the frizzen from closing all the way on the pan. If you somehow modified the hammer so that it rested further back at half cock, it wouldn't matter as the frizzen spring was probably twice as strong as the main spring.

The thing wasn't even useful as a costume piece or wall hanger, so I got my money back from Dixie.

From what I have seen of other guns produced by Palmetto, mine was typical. Hope you can get your money back too.

 

[LRB]

I bought one from Dixie and have to agree on the lack of quality, however they make a nice little gun if you have some gunsmith skills. I drilled a chamber in mine, soldered a plate under the frizzen to keep the powder in the pan, large gap there, I recut the tumbler half cock to get flint clearance, made a new main spring, two factory ones broke, I opened up the breech end of the barrel so that a ball can be thumbed into it, and finally I have a pocket FL pistol that acually works. I will never do another, I was just determined to make this one work. Now that it's all done, and shoots, it just lies on a table for looks.

 

[Zonie]

For a pistol of such high quality, you would think Dixie would at least ask a fair price.
DIXIE GUNWORKS PALMETTO SCREW BARREL

For the quality I'm hearing described IMO this should cost a lot less than the price I'm seeing in the Dixie Link.

Zonie

 

[Homesteader]

I didn't buy from Dixie and paid a fair amount less, but I've already run into the problems y'all have mentioned. I made a temporary leather gasket to hold the prime in the pan and keep the frizzen in position so that the flint doesn't lay on it. I had to do some pretty extensive knapping to get a flint to fit at all & I'm thinking about grinding down the front edges of the cock jaws.
Not even 5 grains will fit in the powder chamber, so I just loaded it by the muzzle with 10 gr and a paper wad for a blank test. Two snaps and then it fired. I intend to braise or epoxy copper to the pan (or frizzen bottom?) to correct that problem, and am thinking of drilling out the tiny hole in the breech where the powder chamber is (supposedly). I've fired it, after all, so I can't return it. I do believe I can make it work, and sometimes that's half the fun. Should've been sold as a kit, though, because that's definitely what it's become.

Thanks for all the advice, and as always more is welcome. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

 

[Pork Chop]

Has anyone checked with Deer Creek products to see if they have a similar item? Their prices are generally about as good as I have found anywhere...

 

[JN01]

Wick-

My hat's off to you for your perseverence and skill. I would love to have a working screw barrel pistol, but unfortunately I'm not much of a gunsmith. I could have paid someone to fix it, but hell, for the price they charged for the gun plus what the work would cost, I could probably buy an original.

 

[LRB]

Unfortunately, what you say is true. These little pop guns are way over priced. If they acually worked, the price would not be so bad. My wife gave me mine as a birthday present, and I did not want her to feel bad about it not working. I sure hope she chooses something better next time.
I never mentioned the load, but I think it is 15gr 3fg. 20gr at most, with a naked ball seated on top. It makes a good bang, and with practice, one can expect to hit the side of a barn, if close enough.

 

[Zonie]

"...with practice, one can expect to hit the side of a barn, if close enough."
_______________________

It helps if your inside the barn, with the door closed. :grin:

 

[Homesteader]

Well, gang, here's the scoop on my little pocket-project: I soldered a small wedge-shaped copper plate to the underside of the pan cover to keep the prime in place. (Hope it holds.) It seems to work, though I'd probably put a little bee's wax around it if I were going to carry it for any length of time. That also changed the angle of the frizzen enough that the flint no longer rests on it at half cock. I then drilled that teeny little hole in the breech out into a proper sized chamber, enough to hold somewhere around 10 or maybe 12 grains of FFFg with the cup still able to hold a ball. I guess that makes it an actual screw-barrel, eh?
Now, here's a question: the grooves are supposed to be .406 and the lands .394. However, a bare ball .395 will simply drop through. Do you believe I could use a .407 bare round ball, or would that create too much pressure? If I do the .395 I'll have to patch it.
Again, your info is invaluable. Thanks everyone!

 

[LRB]

Since I don't have a mold, I have been hammering .451 pistol balls into a sort of loaf, until they feel like they will work. No problems, but I don't shoot it often.