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Load for T/C .58 Big Boar?
- Thread starter 4570Tom
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Hey there Tom,
I don't have one of these rifles, but since there don't seem to be a lot of responses to your question, I can offer some of what the "Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual" (Second Edition) recommends. Assuming your rifle has a 1:48" twist -
If you're shooting 2f Goex, 60 grains under a .570 ball in a .010 Ox-Yoke pre-lubed patch will give you 1188 fps muzzle velocity, 495 ft/lbs energy at 100 yards.
90 grains of 2f Goex will give you 1369 fps muzzle velocity and 562 ft/lbs energy at 100 yards.
If you go up to 140 grains of 2f Goex (not sure what the maximum recommended load for your gun would be, but certainly wouldn't recommend you exceed it), you would get 1078 fps muzzle velocity, 712 ft/lbs energy at 100 yards.
Some folks get hung up on kinetic energy at terminal ranges - I don't. I am not an expert on .58's. I have never owned one.
But I'm thinking that big ol' ball will knock the big ol' cr*p out of something as long as you put the ball in the right place.
Roundball should be PLENTY for any North American big game, but there are recommended loads for conicals in that book. A lot of fun to be had if you don't mind burning copious amounts of powder. :grin:
:hatsoff:
Spot
I don't have one of these rifles, but since there don't seem to be a lot of responses to your question, I can offer some of what the "Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual" (Second Edition) recommends. Assuming your rifle has a 1:48" twist -
If you're shooting 2f Goex, 60 grains under a .570 ball in a .010 Ox-Yoke pre-lubed patch will give you 1188 fps muzzle velocity, 495 ft/lbs energy at 100 yards.
90 grains of 2f Goex will give you 1369 fps muzzle velocity and 562 ft/lbs energy at 100 yards.
If you go up to 140 grains of 2f Goex (not sure what the maximum recommended load for your gun would be, but certainly wouldn't recommend you exceed it), you would get 1078 fps muzzle velocity, 712 ft/lbs energy at 100 yards.
Some folks get hung up on kinetic energy at terminal ranges - I don't. I am not an expert on .58's. I have never owned one.
But I'm thinking that big ol' ball will knock the big ol' cr*p out of something as long as you put the ball in the right place.
Roundball should be PLENTY for any North American big game, but there are recommended loads for conicals in that book. A lot of fun to be had if you don't mind burning copious amounts of powder. :grin:
:hatsoff:
Spot
4570Tom said:
For what its worth, the smallest .58cal conical weighs a whopping 525grns...and IMO, unless you're planning to hunt the big bears that bite back in Alaska, I can't imagine ever needing it, and they are very expensive...your mileage may vary of course.
I hunt .58cal in typical thick woods where shots are in the 25-50 yard range...T/C's barrel is 28" but using a GM 32" barrel which is similar, I settled on the following:
100grns Goex 2F (or 90grns 3F)
Oxyoke prelubed wad
T/C .018" pillow ticking
Hornady .570"
Has a strong, relatively flat trajectory, have taken several eastern whitetails with it, the results have always been immediate and decisive
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I've got two of them, and 90 grains of 3f Goex under a .562 ball with a ticking patch and grease lube is a real performer in both. The same measure of Pyrodex P is accurate too, but ignition is definitely faster with the Goex. That's roughly the equivalent of roundball's 100 grain 2f load, so there might be something going on in that charge/velocity range. A Hornady swaged .570 with the same patch is maybe slightly more accurate, but at $19.95 a box of 50 up here, I aint going to be shooting a lot. The .575 is too large for my tastes with ticking. The Lyman .570 mould is around $70 without handles, and the $20 LEE with handles works just fine.
I've tried 2f and it is almost as accurate, but with considerably more fouling. I'd happily use it, but so many of my guns prefer 3f that I'm happy it works well in the Big Boar, too.
I've shot almost every conical available through mine just cuzz, and I don't really see any need for them for deer. On moose I'd only be taking broadside shots anyway, so RBs would still be fine there, too.
With 80 grains of 3f the conicals probably recoil a little more than a 30-30, but not as "much" as a 308. And 100 grains of 2f feels a little stiffer. Move up to 140 grains of 2f, and you know you uncorked something. Reminds me of a single shot 12 gauge with 3" mags.
Most fun to shoot in the conical realm is the oversize version of LEE improved mini, double dipped with Liquid Alox lube on top of 80 grains of 3f Goex. I'd happily use that load for deer, and with the larger meplat on the nose, I'd be quite confident that it would hit with a lot of authority in spite of the lightish charge.
You got a goodun there. Anyone up here who has shot them is immediately looking for their own. Only complaint is the single trigger, and according to TC it's not suitable for adapting to a double trigger. When I get around to it I'll clean up the triggers on mine a little, but they're hunting rifles rather than range royalty, and the trigger is plenty fine for hunts.
BTW- Two of my hunting pards have Big Boars, and both use 80 grains of 3f 777 with the same ball/patch combo as I use. Results are comparable. They're as proud of theirs as I am!
I've tried 2f and it is almost as accurate, but with considerably more fouling. I'd happily use it, but so many of my guns prefer 3f that I'm happy it works well in the Big Boar, too.
I've shot almost every conical available through mine just cuzz, and I don't really see any need for them for deer. On moose I'd only be taking broadside shots anyway, so RBs would still be fine there, too.
With 80 grains of 3f the conicals probably recoil a little more than a 30-30, but not as "much" as a 308. And 100 grains of 2f feels a little stiffer. Move up to 140 grains of 2f, and you know you uncorked something. Reminds me of a single shot 12 gauge with 3" mags.
Most fun to shoot in the conical realm is the oversize version of LEE improved mini, double dipped with Liquid Alox lube on top of 80 grains of 3f Goex. I'd happily use that load for deer, and with the larger meplat on the nose, I'd be quite confident that it would hit with a lot of authority in spite of the lightish charge.
You got a goodun there. Anyone up here who has shot them is immediately looking for their own. Only complaint is the single trigger, and according to TC it's not suitable for adapting to a double trigger. When I get around to it I'll clean up the triggers on mine a little, but they're hunting rifles rather than range royalty, and the trigger is plenty fine for hunts.
BTW- Two of my hunting pards have Big Boars, and both use 80 grains of 3f 777 with the same ball/patch combo as I use. Results are comparable. They're as proud of theirs as I am!
4570Tom said:
Start with about 35% ball weight of powder and work up. Loads much over 100 grains are *probably* not necessary.
The increased velocity of 100 grains vs 65-70 results in a flatter trajectory over hunting ranges.
Dan
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Dan Phariss said:
That's a real important point that most of us overlook. 90 grains of 3f Goex plants my shots about an inch high at 50 yards, right on at 75, and maybe 3 low at 100. Plenty flat for me, cuzz I'm not willing to shoot game at 100. Don't have to, and choose not to. Move me into more open country and "have to" would be redefined, and I'm betting I'd become a fan of larger charges for a flatter trajectory.
mr.flintlock
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I do not have a TC Big Boar but I have two 58 calibers that I hunt with. With the short barrel on your Big Boar I would use 3-f GOEX and start with 60gr and adjust the load for best accuracy. 60gr or more of 3-f and a PRB will have more than enough power for deer.
mr.flintlock said:
If you don't mind me asking...if 60grns is 'more than enough'...what .58cal powder charge "is" enough?
30grns?
40grns?
50grns?
Softball loads might be good at 15 yards from a treestand but I'd be worried about a tiny powder charge being able to handle an accidental hit on a heavy bone at 125 yards...and be flat enough for accurate shot placement at long distance, but that's just me.
The entry level powder charge published for a PRB in the large volume bore of a .58cal doesn't even start until 80grns, and runs up to 120grns.
longcruise
70 Cal.
The wife used the lee modern target minie over 60 grains of ff for mule deer and it worked great. She was confining her shots to 40 or 45 yards. Recoil was not too stout for all 5' 4" of her.
The OP does not mention what the gun will be used for though. If putting holes in targets out to 50 yards is it, then I'd start at about 45 grains with an rb and go up looking for an accurate load. If it's for hunting then a load with adequate accuracy with 80 grains or more of powder would be useful, IMO.
It's funny to me that whenever someone asks for load info, it does not take us long to start shooting whitetail deer with their rifle. :haha:
mr.flintlock
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Most of the load data that I have seen for 58 caliber is with 2-f powder. The load data that I gave as a STARTING load was 60gr of 3-f. Now that may seem like a softball load to some but consider this: 3f black powder gives considerable more velocity than 2-f with the same volume of powder. Lyman did tests on this and lists their results in the Lyman Black Powder Handbook 10th edition page 85. An example of this was a test on a 54 caliber barrel.
Example: 120gr 2-f Goex with PRB- 1667 fps
80gr 3-f Goex with PRB - 1629fps
And as I stated in my earlier post, fine tune for accuracy. This means that If you are planning to hunt ranges up to 120 yARDS IT MAY TAKE 90 - 100 grains of 3-f to give the best accuracy over that distance.
Since 1976 I have killed 50 deer with traditional muzzleloaders with patched round ball. The longest shot that I have made with any rifle(including a scoped 30-06) was 85 yards using a 54 caliber rifle with Patched round ball. I mainly hunt swamps creek bottoms and thick mixtures of hard woods and pines where 50 yards is a long shot.
So, I stick by my original STARTING load of 60gr of 3-F Goex at ranges out to 75 yards.
Example: 120gr 2-f Goex with PRB- 1667 fps
80gr 3-f Goex with PRB - 1629fps
And as I stated in my earlier post, fine tune for accuracy. This means that If you are planning to hunt ranges up to 120 yARDS IT MAY TAKE 90 - 100 grains of 3-f to give the best accuracy over that distance.
Since 1976 I have killed 50 deer with traditional muzzleloaders with patched round ball. The longest shot that I have made with any rifle(including a scoped 30-06) was 85 yards using a 54 caliber rifle with Patched round ball. I mainly hunt swamps creek bottoms and thick mixtures of hard woods and pines where 50 yards is a long shot.
So, I stick by my original STARTING load of 60gr of 3-F Goex at ranges out to 75 yards.
I appreciate everyone's input on this. Most of my hunting and shooting has been with .54 roundballs and .50 conicals. I had trouble getting accuracy from the Big Boar in the past, and I think a lot of it had to do with the load and loading process. Seemed to be a pretty tight bore with patched balls. Consequently the BB has been sitting unused in the safe for sometime now. Time to bring it out.
I had the .58 big bore for years and used it to take a few deer. I got it because elk and deer seasons are at the same time and I didn't think that a .50 was big enought to use. My load was 115 of 2f and 570 maxie ball shot great but did let you know that you had pulled the trigger. Tom
smokehouseman
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The TC Big Boar has really soared in popularity in the past couple of years here in our little corner of Alaska. I believe for several reasons it's a favorite shooter but probably because of it's whampability, lightweight, and the fact that it's easy to maneuver through the tangle of brush we have around here. I shoot 80 grains of Triple 7, 3f with a .575 roundball and .018 pillow ticking laced with Crisco and beeswax. For the most part most of our shooting for deer is done around 40 yards of less. This season I did shoot a unusual long shot of over 100 yards with the same load as mentioned above and it performed just like the doctor ordered.
canemminor
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I don't know how well this may translate to the TC. I hunt with a Enfield 1858 Navy rifle. It shoots a 596gr minie lubed with TC Borebutter over 55gr of 3F Goex. I am on at 15 yrds, 3 inches high at 50 and dead on at 100. At 50 yards I know it will fully penetrate a large deer taking out ribs as it goes. I think the great mass of the projectile makes up for the sedate velocity. It is pleasant to shoot which makes frequect practice a fun experience.
I picked up a .58 investarms hunter hawken.
Shooting a .562 ball over 60gr of 2F, it will penetrate thru 1 1/2" marine grade plywood, followed by 3/4" pressure treat plywood, hit the ground and bore 42 inches at a depth of 5 inches, pop out of the soil on a slight slope, go air born for a rise of 70 feet, travel 235 more yards, hit my pole barn that cannot be seen from where I shoot, pierce the metal siding and have the ball become embedded in a 2x8 pressure treat line girt.
All that with "just" 60gr of 2F.
That same load is dead on at 50, 1 inch high at 25 and 2 1/2 inch low at 100.
Shooting a .562 ball over 60gr of 2F, it will penetrate thru 1 1/2" marine grade plywood, followed by 3/4" pressure treat plywood, hit the ground and bore 42 inches at a depth of 5 inches, pop out of the soil on a slight slope, go air born for a rise of 70 feet, travel 235 more yards, hit my pole barn that cannot be seen from where I shoot, pierce the metal siding and have the ball become embedded in a 2x8 pressure treat line girt.
All that with "just" 60gr of 2F.
That same load is dead on at 50, 1 inch high at 25 and 2 1/2 inch low at 100.
longcruise
70 Cal.
No he did not. He has since clarified his hunting habit so we got it right this time.
If he had ther intent of hunting elk size game with it I'da suggested 80 or 90 grains.
