Load for Uberti Walker Revolver

[M. De Land]

- Battered wedge slots in the barrel assy.
- Battered wedge slots in the arbor.
- Battered wedge.
- loose arbors get pounded from the frame because of excess endshake.

Any and or all of these lead to a loose wedge as well as a wedge that can be bent to a point that it has to be hammered out.
All of this means the wedge isn't tight in the revolver which is why the battering takes place.

The ultimate damage is loss of the end of the arbor.
View attachment 370939
Obviously all of this is done over a period of time with enough round counts.

All this has been repeated several times over the last couple of years. Sadly, the same questions get asked by the same folks.

Bottom line is, fix the arbor if it is short and none of this will happen (whether you understand the WHY or not) unless you think "thumb pressure" is all ya need.

Mike

Those two little strips of steel is all that keeps the barrel from going down range until it doesn't any longer !

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

And that can happen whether the end of the arbor touches the bottom of the hole in the barrel or not.

 

[Garbear34]

The old Lyman / Ideal #45266 bevel base semi-wadcutter was pretty good in a Walker. The RCBS 45-220-CAV design (below) worked well also when the rear bands were swaged down small enough to slip into the chambers.
View attachment 369936

Question on the Ideal / Lyman #45266 mold you have used. What is it dropping at diameter wise? Think if big enough use in my ruger old army and my walker.

 

[45D]

Those two little strips of steel is all that keeps the barrel from going down range until it doesn't any longer !

And that can happen whether the end of the arbor touches the bottom of the hole in the barrel or not.

Neither one of you understand the dynamics of the platform, but you're probably 80% of the crowd that keeps asking the same questions.
You should just sit back and be amazed that they function at all!

As for my personal revolvers, it should amaze you that they shoot what they shoot (nothing less than 21K psi and usually 23Kpsi). Barrels still in place, shooting jacketed bullets, no signs of wear or battering . . . They just seem to defy what you say will happen.

For the rest of you, the secret is what is screwed into the frame and how well the mechanical setup keeps the other end from leaving. (They weren't NEARLY as dumb as some seem to think!!)

Mike

 

[45D]

Those two little strips of steel is all that keeps the barrel from going down range until it doesn't any longer !

Barrel AND wedge, that's the way they are set up from the factory (except for current Piettas) and how YOU set them up with a "tool steel" wedge. You and the factory leave "space" between the arbor and the barrel assy (there's a great big ol' hint right there).

Mike

 

[45D]

And that can happen whether the end of the arbor touches the bottom of the hole in the barrel or not.

Well, definitely if there's NO contact. If there IS contact but there's no real tension from the wedge (since apparently it's not "driven" in!) it could happen . . . BUT, if there is major tension from the wedge pulling the barrel AGAINST the arbor end . . . It WON'T!!!! See!!!! You stumbled all into it !!!! That's how that works - something can't go where there isn't any room for it to go . . . it's also why drilling a hole in the end and putting an adjustable wedge bearing in has no ill effect on the setup . . . let that steep . . .

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Neither one of you understand the dynamics of the platform, but you're probably 80% of the crowd that keeps asking the same questions.
You should just sit back and be amazed that they function at all!

As for my personal revolvers, it should amaze you that they shoot what they shoot (nothing less than 21K psi and usually 23Kpsi). Barrels still in place, shooting jacketed bullets, no signs of wear or battering . . . They just seem to defy what you say will happen.

For the rest of you, the secret is what is screwed into the frame and how well the mechanical setup keeps the other end from leaving. (They weren't NEARLY as dumb as some seem to think!!)

Mike

Your supposed knowledge of design strength comparisons is most underwhelming !

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

What Karma (Colt) said about preventing the barrel assembly from going too far back and hitting the cylinder - establishing a minimum gap - makes perfect sense.
Strengthening the gun somehow doesn't seem to make any sense. If those two strips of steel on the top and bottom of the arbor slot give out, nothing ahead of that will matter. How could putting tension on the part of the arbor ahead of the slot make it stronger? Any destructive force is pushing the barrel away from the frame, not towards it.
I'm looking for a logical explanation, not an argument.
Insulting me personally or being extremely insistent doesn't contribute anything worthwhile.

 

[45D]

Your supposed knowledge of design strength comparisons is most underwhelming !

Ok, I'm doing it, you sit behind a keyboard.

 

[45D]

What Karma (Colt) said about preventing the barrel assembly from going too far back and hitting the cylinder - establishing a minimum gap - makes perfect sense.
Strengthening the gun somehow doesn't seem to make any sense. If those two strips of steel on the top and bottom of the arbor slot give out, nothing ahead of that will matter. How could putting tension on the part of the arbor ahead of the slot make it stronger? Any destructive force is pushing the barrel away from the frame, not towards it.
I'm looking for a logical explanation, not an argument.
Insulting me personally or being extremely insistent doesn't contribute anything worthwhile.

Don't know what was "insulting" but, whatever.
I just explained it to you right in front of your face!

Mike

 

[Dude]

Strengthening the gun somehow doesn't seem to make any sense. If those two strips of steel on the top and bottom of the arbor slot give out, nothing ahead of that will matter. How could putting tension on the part of the arbor ahead of the slot make it stronger? Any destructive force is pushing the barrel away from the frame, not towards it.

A simple way of looking at it: if the arbor is short and doesn't bottom out, then the wedge stretches the slot. However, when the arbor bottoms, the wedge traps the arbor end between it and the bottom of the well. The arbor will be under a certain amount of tension needed to secure the barrel.

If the arbor doesn't bottom out, then when fired, the barrel adds tension to the arbor, which can stretch since there's room to move deeper into the well.

And then when it's stretched, the next instant it wants to return to its original shape, returns, bounces, back and forth. Ringing. Oscillations. Maybe only a fraction of a thousandth of an inch, but the more that happens, the larger the oscillations. Heavier loads increase the magnitude and wear happens quicker.

True - those two strips of metal alongside the wedge slot don't seem like much, but when the arbor bottoms, they seem to be enough.

 

[Smokerr]

Strengthening the gun somehow doesn't seem to make any sense. If those two strips of steel on the top and bottom of the arbor slot give out, nothing ahead of that will matter. How could putting tension on the part of the arbor ahead of the slot make it stronger? Any destructive force is pushing the barrel away from the frame, not towards it.
I'm looking for a logical explanation, not an argument.
Insulting me personally or being extremely insistent doesn't contribute anything worthwhile.

Jim: With all due respect, its been presented in several ways. At that point its a couple of takes. You are not going to get it because its not in your wheelhouse. I get that, there is a whole lot (including Open Top) that are not in mine. I can shift my mechanical non syncro gears and get the idea. I can not design it, I can't machine it but I get the idea and I can grasp that Mike has proven it. I don't do the kind of work on these Mike does. But I get it. Any slop is going to batter and enough battering and the pistol gets wrecked. Good enough.

Yea Mike had to chew on me a bit, I did not get it. But he did not give up on me (thank you Mike). I gots lots of mechanical experience but this is pretty unique (maybe is unique).


But then lo many years ago, I ran into a creature called a reversing pneumatic relay reversing a pneumatic signal. Why not a normal direct acting relay? Well they screwed up and it is a tool in the tool set, sometimes its easier to just use a direct signal and reverse it for part of the function. Other times they screw up and its a slap fix. And don't even get me started on IR and their infamous Overhung crank air compressors.

The other aspect is you don't want to get it. That is Mr. De Land. I would like you are not that but ........

One thing you have missed clearly, the Wedge on the Cylinder side (they go in from the wrong direction on anything other than a 447 Walker!) bears against the front barrel assembly.

Take a look at your arbor, the front of the slot is flat. The rear is a milled out curve.

Look at your wedge. The barrel side is slanted, the chamber side is flat.

Now look at your near chamber side of the barrel assembly. Its flat on both sides.

Want to guess where the bearing surface is on that side?

Ok, now take the wedge out completely (possibly have to remove the screw). Put the gun together. Look through the Wedge slot. What do you see?

Now where do you think the Arbor should be in regards to the hole in the Barrel Assembly?

 

[D Yager]

What I find interesting is the about face here with some folks, they are onboard when the Colt document was revealed about the arbor needing to be seated yet now that thought has turned 180 degrees. Either you believe the short arbor is a problem or you don't. By not believing it you can go ahead and wreck your pistol. I've repaired enough Walkers and Dragoons to know the arbor problem is a for real issue. And yes Mike knows what he's talking about. That slot cut into the arbor is designed to take the load in tension not shear. There's adequate material and strength to handle holding the two parts together along with the wedge which is filling the slot. If it worked in 1847 with soft iron parts it will definitely work now with much better steel.

 

[Smokerr]

I will freely admit I was questioning to start with and Mike was good enough to persist.

We are beyond lucky to have him. and his willing top share and persist

 

[Garbear34]

What I find interesting is the about face here with some folks, they are onboard when the Colt document was revealed about the arbor needing to be seated yet now that thought has turned 180 degrees. Either you believe the short arbor is a problem or you don't. By not believing it you can go ahead and wreck your pistol. I've repaired enough Walkers and Dragoons to know the arbor problem is a for real issue. And yes Mike knows what he's talking about. That slot cut into the arbor is designed to take the load in tension not shear. There's adequate material and strength to handle holding the two parts together along with the wedge which is filling the slot. If it worked in 1847 with soft iron parts it will definitely work now with much better steel.

Point me in direction on short arbor fix. I keep hearing its an issue on the colts. I have a walker couple colt navys and honestly i still dont understand the fix or how to do it.