Archer 756
40 Cal.
Loading of cap and ball question: Have read and have been told that one loads powder, then fiber cared, then ball. others have noted : powder, ball, then fiber card
Loading Cap and Ball
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Loading of cap and ball question: Have read and have been told that one loads powder, then fiber cared, then ball. others have noted : powder, ball, then fiber card- Joined
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'afternoon,
I was taught powder, wad, ball. That's how I've always done it. I doubt that you'd get the wad to stay if it was loaded last.
Calum
I was taught powder, wad, ball. That's how I've always done it. I doubt that you'd get the wad to stay if it was loaded last.
Calum
Just to add to the complexity, I load powder, then ball with a touch of grease over the top of the ball, just 'cuz.
It's worked for over 40 years for me without a problem.
It's worked for over 40 years for me without a problem.
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I have never heard of placing cards over the ball in a cap & ball revolver. Actually cards are used over shot in a smoothbore to hold the shot in place. C & B revolvers are typically loaded in either of two ways - each method works and each has its proponents. Try both & choose which works best for you.
First method: load measured powder into chamber, insert ball & using loading lever, force ball into cylinder till it touches powder charge & then add a small amount of grease into the cylinder over the ball. Crisco & white lithium both work as do other greases. (Some greases will be too runny if shooting in very hot weather). The gun will be a bit messy after firing a few cylinders but will clean easily.
Second method: load measured powder into chamber, insert pre-cut & pre-lubed felt wad (easily bought by the bag or stamp out & lube your own) & then insert ball onto mouth of cylinder & force down with loading lever till seated on the powder. This method is somewhat less messy than the first but both work just fine.
Notes:
Target shooters often find that their most accurate powder loads are less powder than will fit into the cylinder and that the most accurate results occur when the loaded ball is at or very close to the end of the cylinder. To achieve these loading goals, an amount of corn starch or a similar product can be loaded over the smaller powder charge so that when the ball (in 1st method) or the wad & ball in 2nd method) is added, that the seated ball is at the chamber mouth.
Balls for a cap & ball revolver should be slightly oversize so that when loaded, a small ring of lead is sheared off as the ball is forced into the cylinder. This tight fit/seal helps ensure the charge developing full power (no blow by) and also helps prevent a chain fire from the front of the cylinders as opposed to a chain fire from the rear (which may be caused by a poor nipple/cap fit & caps falling off). Only pure lead should be used for balls in a C&B as harder lead (like wheelweights) will put a severe strain on the loading lever & breakage of parts including shearing of loading lever pins/screws becomes likely.
Hopefully the above helps you enjoy your gun/s.
First method: load measured powder into chamber, insert ball & using loading lever, force ball into cylinder till it touches powder charge & then add a small amount of grease into the cylinder over the ball. Crisco & white lithium both work as do other greases. (Some greases will be too runny if shooting in very hot weather). The gun will be a bit messy after firing a few cylinders but will clean easily.
Second method: load measured powder into chamber, insert pre-cut & pre-lubed felt wad (easily bought by the bag or stamp out & lube your own) & then insert ball onto mouth of cylinder & force down with loading lever till seated on the powder. This method is somewhat less messy than the first but both work just fine.
Notes:
Target shooters often find that their most accurate powder loads are less powder than will fit into the cylinder and that the most accurate results occur when the loaded ball is at or very close to the end of the cylinder. To achieve these loading goals, an amount of corn starch or a similar product can be loaded over the smaller powder charge so that when the ball (in 1st method) or the wad & ball in 2nd method) is added, that the seated ball is at the chamber mouth.
Balls for a cap & ball revolver should be slightly oversize so that when loaded, a small ring of lead is sheared off as the ball is forced into the cylinder. This tight fit/seal helps ensure the charge developing full power (no blow by) and also helps prevent a chain fire from the front of the cylinders as opposed to a chain fire from the rear (which may be caused by a poor nipple/cap fit & caps falling off). Only pure lead should be used for balls in a C&B as harder lead (like wheelweights) will put a severe strain on the loading lever & breakage of parts including shearing of loading lever pins/screws becomes likely.
Hopefully the above helps you enjoy your gun/s.
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I've recently started to make my own felt wads soaked in bullet lube I make here using bees wax and murphy's oil soap.
I got tired of smearing grease over each ball and having a greasy mess to clean off my hand,face, shooting glasses and revolver.
After doing it this way since the 60s when I started shooting cap-n-ball revolvers, it dawned on me one day that I was getting a different amount of grease on each successive load as the blast from the previous one removed more of the grease for the next shot.
The grease wads are much less messy to shoot, more consistent in lube amount shot to shot,faster to load and it looks like accuracy is about the same although I will need to do a side by side comparison to verify what seems to be occurring.
One more advantage that seems to be showing up as well is less fouling in the barrel/ cylinder gap which allow more shooting before cleaning.
I got tired of smearing grease over each ball and having a greasy mess to clean off my hand,face, shooting glasses and revolver.
After doing it this way since the 60s when I started shooting cap-n-ball revolvers, it dawned on me one day that I was getting a different amount of grease on each successive load as the blast from the previous one removed more of the grease for the next shot.
The grease wads are much less messy to shoot, more consistent in lube amount shot to shot,faster to load and it looks like accuracy is about the same although I will need to do a side by side comparison to verify what seems to be occurring.
One more advantage that seems to be showing up as well is less fouling in the barrel/ cylinder gap which allow more shooting before cleaning.
Archer 756
40 Cal.
:thumbsup: Thanks :hatsoff:
Billnpatti
Cannon
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If you are using a wad in your cap and ball revolver, the proper order is powder, wad and then the ball. Some use them and some don't. I prefer to use them. I lightly lubricate mine. Those who don't use them often like to put a dab of grease over the ball. The wad or grease serves two purposes, it lubricates and allegedly prevents flash overs from one chamber to the next. Whether such flashovers, which can and do happen, happen in this manner or the flashover occurs at the nipple has long been disputed. That is not your question so I will not comment on that issue.
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
If you "soak" your felt wads in oil, tallow, wax or a combination of it all, be sure to squeeze out any excess before loading. An oily wad compressed between ball & powder will soak into the powder & wreck accuracy and performance. If you can squeeze out lube from a treated felt wad with your fingers when placing one between paper towels, you're using too uch lube.
I simply use a square of 2 ply TP with a tiny smear of beeswax & tallow ball lube folded up inside. Not enough lube to soak into the powder & not enough to leave a greasy, messy residue all over the frame to accumulate that "soft" fouling everyone is so fond of producing.
And that filler to use between ball & powder for reduced powder capacity loads - that's grits or cream of wheat & NOT cornstarch :redface:
I simply use a square of 2 ply TP with a tiny smear of beeswax & tallow ball lube folded up inside. Not enough lube to soak into the powder & not enough to leave a greasy, messy residue all over the frame to accumulate that "soft" fouling everyone is so fond of producing.
And that filler to use between ball & powder for reduced powder capacity loads - that's grits or cream of wheat & NOT cornstarch :redface:
I'm not sure what you mean by a "fiber card". The wads everyone is talking about are like the felt from an old cowboy hat. These are soaked in a lube to keep the bore clear of fouling and hopefully guard against a chain fire.
So...
Option #1. Powder charge, ball, fill end of chamber with Crisco or similar lube, cap, shoot.
or
Option #2. Powder Charge, pre-lubed wad, ball, cap and shoot.
Either option works okay
As M.D. said the wads are a lot less messy. To give them a fair chance I'd buy some so you know what they are like and then if you wish, make your own.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Lubed-Black-Powder-Revolver-Wads-Per/706908.uts
So...
Option #1. Powder charge, ball, fill end of chamber with Crisco or similar lube, cap, shoot.
or
Option #2. Powder Charge, pre-lubed wad, ball, cap and shoot.
Either option works okay
As M.D. said the wads are a lot less messy. To give them a fair chance I'd buy some so you know what they are like and then if you wish, make your own.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Lubed-Black-Powder-Revolver-Wads-Per/706908.uts
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I don't think smeared grease over the ball is much protection against chain fire from the front end of the chamber any way.
After the very first shot all put a thin film of any lube placed over the seated balls is blasted away and decreases with each successive shot to be replaced with fouling.
If there is a chamber mouth seal problem there than the pressure of leaking gas at the cylinders end will find it.
A proper ball fit and over size wad will seal better than any grease will even if it did stay on top of the ball in the chamber mounth.
After the very first shot all put a thin film of any lube placed over the seated balls is blasted away and decreases with each successive shot to be replaced with fouling.
If there is a chamber mouth seal problem there than the pressure of leaking gas at the cylinders end will find it.
A proper ball fit and over size wad will seal better than any grease will even if it did stay on top of the ball in the chamber mounth.
M.D. said:
The grease isn't to prevent chain fires,,,it is just to keep fouling soft,,,with the right size ball the chance of a chain fire from the front of the cylinder is as likely as a chain fire with a modern cartridge revolver. btw.sorry about my comments on chain fires.:dead:
We have talked of this before but for any newbies- I also thought the Crisco or other grease on the end of the chambers "sealed" the works to prevent a chain fire. The stuff was always a mess and I'd keep a spare towel to wipe off my hands. You could not carry a gun loaded in that manner in a holster in hot weather as Crisco would melt out into the leather. Then someone asked if I ever fired a couple of shots and then looked at the chamber ends. Half the time after a shot or two all the Crisco has melted/burned off.
Robert E. Lee had the ends of the chambers on his Colt 36 filled with red sealing wax. The gun was apparently never fired during the war. But using that kind of seal would be really difficult.
When I started using lubed wads I thought the wad was lubed, thick, and sealed the chamber very well. Even if flame somehow got past the ball I can't see how any flame could penetrate a lubed wad and ignite the powder- causing a chain fire.
If you plan to carry the revolver in a holster you will want to use wads.
The wad takes up space in the chamber and places the ball closer to the end of the cylinder- which helps accuracy and uses less powder and eliminates the need for cream of wheat or some other type filler.
Additionally, I think the wad going down the bore is a far better "scrubber" of fouling than just lube at the end of the chamber. The wad is also supposed to cushion the ball and result in better accuracy although from a practical stand point I'm not too sure on that. BUT...all in all, I think using wads is highly desirable.
Robert E. Lee had the ends of the chambers on his Colt 36 filled with red sealing wax. The gun was apparently never fired during the war. But using that kind of seal would be really difficult.
When I started using lubed wads I thought the wad was lubed, thick, and sealed the chamber very well. Even if flame somehow got past the ball I can't see how any flame could penetrate a lubed wad and ignite the powder- causing a chain fire.
If you plan to carry the revolver in a holster you will want to use wads.
The wad takes up space in the chamber and places the ball closer to the end of the cylinder- which helps accuracy and uses less powder and eliminates the need for cream of wheat or some other type filler.
Additionally, I think the wad going down the bore is a far better "scrubber" of fouling than just lube at the end of the chamber. The wad is also supposed to cushion the ball and result in better accuracy although from a practical stand point I'm not too sure on that. BUT...all in all, I think using wads is highly desirable.
Golfswithwolves
40 Cal.
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I find that powder, wad, then a dab of lube UNDER the ball works very well. The lube stays in place well and with shooting seems to aerosolize over the bore and keeps powder fouling soft. Very easy clean-up. (GeoJohn writes about this on his site)
Having never used wads it wouldn't have occurred to me to put some lube between the wad and ball but I like the idea. I just ordered some felt a couple of days ago to make revolver wads to try and I see no reason not to put some additional lube on top of the wad and under the ball.
Archer 756
40 Cal.
:thumbsup: Thanks for the Info :hatsoff:
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
You want the minimum amount of lube in a wad. If you can squeeze lube out of a wad between paper towels, you've got too much. To add some additional lube after seating a wad & before seating the ball invites problems with lube squeezing thru the wad and into your powder.hawkeye2 said:
