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BRUN

40 Cal.
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Never loaded a muzzle loader with shot before and was wondering what the loading procedure was.I have a 20 guage on order and would like to know how to load it for rabbit,grouse and turkey.What equipment do I need and what size of shot?Thanks
 
For smoothbores, assuming yours is .62 cal/ 20 gauge.
I'd start with 65 gr. of 3F gunpowder,overpowder wad,65 gr.(by volume, not weight)shot size 7.5,
over shot card or wad.
You will need to play around with your load, some folks use cusion wads as well, I don't.
I usually use 70 gr. 3f, OP wad,85 gr. volume of shot #4 for squirrel,7.5 or 8 fer cottontail or birds and shot card.
Good luck and good shooting :hatsoff:
 
In choosing a size of shot for a large bird like turkey, you first have to understand that if the gun you have ordered comes with a cylinder bore, ( ie. it has NO choke ) the range at which you can reiably take a turkey with a single shot is restricted to under 30 yards, and probably less than 25 yds.

That having been said, It is the weight of each pellet that transfer's energy, and not the velocity. You are not going to get 1300 fps out of a Black Powder shotgun unless you use a very unbalanced load, with lots of powder, and very little shot! So we don't recommend even trying to obtain the speed of modern shot shells.

I recommend #5 shot, but many people get good results using #6, and some use #4 shot. All have done extensive patterning of their guns and loads before settling on a load combination that works in their PARTICULAR gun. You are going to have to put in time on the patterning boards with your gun, no matter what recommendations we give you. Every gun is different. Every Shooter loads his gun differently, and I am not speaking only of components. Its often the loading technique of the shooter that determines what works for you, and not for me.

You need to know that Black powder loads in shotguns are measured in DRAMS. A dram is equal to 27.5 grains of black powder. Most shotguns of 20 gauge and larger work best with FFg powder, rather than the smaller FFFg powder. But try both. Some guns shoot FFFg powder better.

I found that using a good 1/8" card wad over the powder to seal the bore from the powder gases works the best in my gun. Others here use felt wads, and other kinds of materials. I tried the others, and fire my gun over a chronograph to see what was giving me consistent velocities, and settled on the card wad for my gun. Your gun may be different. The only way to know is to test it over a chronograph.

Read the V.M. Starr article in Bob Spenser's Black Powder notebook to get a good idea about what loads to use for what game.
[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html[/url]

70 grains of powder is only 2.5 drams, which sounds like a light load until you check the boxes of 20 ga. shotgun shells at your local gun store and find out what " dram Equaivalent " loads they are selling in 20 ga. 65 grains is about a 2 1/4 dram load, and it is no slouch, either.

One of the old rules of thumb you will find mentioned here is, " much powder, poor patterns; less powder, better patterns." You will get a denser pattern using a lighter powder charge in relation to the volume of shot you use, than if you try to increase the velocity by adding more powder under the same volume of shot.

Lastly, if you review the posts, you will find recommendations for combinations of components, powder to shot, being 50:70, 50:80, meaning that if you use 50 grains of powder, you should use a 70 or 80 grain volume measure of shot. Others describe the proportions as 3:4, 3:5, 3:6 etc. Basically, you will find that you can maintain one powder charge and increase the number of pellets that pattern on your target by increasing the volume of shot you load in the gun. I don't know anyone personally who shoots a load that is twice the amount of shot by volume to the amount of powder, but there is probably someone out there who swears by such a load. If you are experimenting on your own, start with a 50/50 load, that is, an even volume of powder and shot, and then increase the amount of shot by 1/8 dram increments. That would be about 3.5 grain of powder as you make an adjustment to you powder measure. YOu can ov course increase the amount of shot in any kind of increments that you like, but I think you will find a load that patterns the best in your gun quickly by doing this kind of testing.

Eventually, you will want to get away from newspaper, or plain wrapping paper for your testing, and try your load on a Turkey target consisting of the head and neck of a turkey. You can actually find these on the internet to down load, and copy. You want to have a consistent pattern that will put a minimum of 5 to 10 pellets in the head and neck of the target, in order to insure a kill. Of course, only one pellet in the brain is needed to kill a turkey, but it is amazing to most turkey hunters how much punishment a turkey can take and still be flopping around, if you are lucky.

I like to recommend the larger sized shot becuase they carry enough energy at 25 and 30 yds to penetrate bone, and cartilage to reach the spine, or brain. At very close ranges, any shot will do that job. But when you get to 25 yards, and further, the shot that is 7 1/2 or smaller just runs out of gas to kill a turkey cleanly. Now, I have killed dove with #8 shot at 35 yds, but this is a much smaller bird, and that one bird was hit in the head by one pellet. Does the word, " luck " come to mind? It did to me that day! :rotf:
 
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BRUN said:
Never loaded a muzzle loader with shot before and was wondering what the loading procedure was.I have a 20 guage on order and would like to know how to load it for rabbit,grouse and turkey.What equipment do I need and what size of shot?Thanks

Take a look at this thread:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/165800/post/165800/hl//#165800[/url]

You can pour the shot in loose, as shown in that thread, or you can roll up paper shot cups. You can use your powder measure to measure out shot, but some guys like using shot measures with slightly wider mouths than the usual powder measure. Shot measures designed for the task will be marked in drams or ounces. If you use a powder measure to measure out your shot, take a look at this conversion table:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195339/[/url]

Unless you use only pre-rolled shot cups, you'll want something to carry your shot in. Two popular choices are shot flasks and shot snakes. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages, and its own set of fans.
Shot Flask
Shot Snake

You'll also note those shot holders come with at least two styles of head / measuring device: English and Irish.

English style head
Irish style head

Again, each has its own fans. I'll point out that they sell replacement measuring cups for the Irish style head, and let you think about the reasons for that :winking:

As for wads, cards, etc, take a look at this page from Track of the Wolf. Basically, you need one from column A, one from column B, and one from column C. After you've experimented a bit, you can decide what (if anything) you can do without, and which thicknesses work best in your situation.
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=37&styleID=118[/url]

One note of caution here... you might want to wait until you have the gun in your hands and can put a micrometer on the bore before you order your cards and wads. Not all 20 gauges are true 20 gauges (0.615"), so you may end up wanting cards and wads of different size than recommended on Track's page.

As for matching shot to game, go with the same size shot recommended on the back of shotgun shell boxes, or one size larger.

You're going to enjoy your new smoothie!
 
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Thanks for the help.Been shooting my rifled muzzle loaders for awhile and decided to get a smoothbore for small and large[url] game.Again[/url] thanks to all for the help.Now I just have to wait for the gun to get built.
 
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Read Paul's message again, and a second time wouldn't hurt. Then print it out for future reference.

Paul is right on about the larger shot sizes too.
My Bess delivers the most consistent patterns with #5s, not to mention the 5's delivering more than enough energy to cleanly kill squirrels at 30 + yards.

In my experience most flint guns seem to like approximately 1 1/2 more shot than powder, by volume. That is, if your powder charge is 70 GR, then the shot charge would be approximately 105 gr, by volume. Using an adjustable powder measure simplifies working up a good load, BTW.

IMHO, it's much better to use the slower burning FFG over the faster burning FFFG. Too much velocity can cause holes in the center of the pattern.
J.D.
 
I could expound on answering your question, but will refer you to one very knowledgeable Bob Spencer, who goes into great depth and is a much better writer than I. And he has a Jackie Brown .62 (20ga) smoothie he loves and worked up the shot and ball loads for.

[url] http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen[/url]/
 
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J.D. said:
Read Paul's message again, and a second time wouldn't hurt. Then print it out for future referenc
I got it saved and a few of his other posts.Good information.
 
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