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[Tanker]

My son just started to get interested in shooting muzzleloaders. He's 11. We went to the range yesterday and we did some shooting. He was given a flintlock from my dad. I remember when he bought it. It was a package deal from traditions. Very cheap but shot tight groups. I remember my dad always having trouble loading it. After he shot the first round he could not get a 2nd loaded. He usually would use a hammer of some sorts and get it seated when he would get a ball stuck. He got tired of cleaning constantly so he put it in the closet. He tried different patch sizes. Different lube. Different real BP powder. Nothing worked except for synthetic powder he could usually get a second shot but no more. At the range yesterday it happened again this time I got the ball stuck about 4in down. Eventually I dump the powder out and with some help I was able to pull the ball. Besides cleaning really good between shots is there any other way to get more shots between cleaning. On the good note though my son was cutting holes on the bullseye with my TC. So he is hooked.

 

[mooman76]

It would help if you told us your loads. Caliber, ball size, patch size, loads and all. Spit patch always worked for me for continuous loads without cleaning but need more info.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Tell us some more about the rifle.

1 What is the caliber of the rifle? Have you measured the bore diameter? (Probably not)

2 What size ball are you using?

3 What is the thickness of the patch?

4 When you wipe the bore to clean the rifle, is the patch and cleaning solution very tight? Any roughness in the bore?

More information will help us to figure out the problems.

Have you tried a smaller ball?

 

[Tanker]

Rifle is a .50 tradition deer Slayer. Made in Spain.
Patches I am using now is TC patches that looks like pillow patch. I thought the thickness was .15. Not sure though. Never really paid much attention to that I found what works for my TC and got a bunch of it.
Ball size is .490
I have never measured the bore and I have no idea how.
When I clean it seems to tighten up about half way through the barrel. It then frees up a little the last 2-3in. The jag I use on my .50 TC will get stuck if I use it when cleaning. The jag that came with the weapon doesn't. By the looks of them they are the same size. I would need a mircrometer to tell the difference if even then.
The bore is free of rust or corrosion and see no issues with the lanes or curves.
Load wise I use 85gr goex 2f in barrel. Not really been able to work a good load for it yet. If I forgot anything let me know. I am not new to flintlock but I took a huge break in doing anything with one so my knowledge level is fairly low on the subject. I will try to answer anything to the best I can.

 

[Semisane]

Try some .480 balls.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/127/2

 

[Grenadier1758]

What lubricant are you using?

Are you using pre lubricated patches from when your father first shot the gun?

I think the T/C jag is too large for your rifle.

Most any lubricant will do from spit to various oils and greases. A damp patch with spit is as good as exotic greases. Reloading after firing with a dry patch is asking for the fouling to lock up on the patch and ball and prevent the loader from seating the ball on the powder.

Tell us in total detail how you load the initial and the second shot that hangs up in the bore. Start at the point where you approach the loading bench.

What do you do to prepare for the first shot? Do you wipe the bore with an alcohol soaked patch to remove all traces of rust preventative grease from the bore? How do you lubricate the patch? How easy does the ball start?

 

[Tanker]

I started off prior to heading to the range. I fun a clean dry patch through the the barrel. Reason I always like to verify my weapons loaded status plus whip off any excess grease. At the bench I use prelubed patches. If I question at all I will put a light coat of bore butter on it. I measure the powder out and dump it straight from the measure. I put the patch on the barrel and thumb the ball in the hole. (I can usually on get it to go down have the bar size. I then use my ball starter to push the ball in place. Usually tight a lot more effort then my TC. I then ran the round with the round until seated. Takes more force than my TC. I hate the word always but I always make sure my patches are lubed. Reloading between shots for stuck barrel load the powder the same greese the patch and drive the ball in until I cant. If I clean the bore with bore cleaner (I use turkey foot) just running a patch through will not let it load. I have to dump the stuff down barrel and scrub a little. And then it will load like normal.

 

[smoothshooter]

What do you mean by saying " get it to go down have the bar size "?

Not familiar with that phrase.

 

[excess650]

It sounds like you have some issue between whatever preservative (grease) you're storing the rifle with, the patch lube you're using, and the BP fouling.

I've never been a fan of bore butter, and don't believe in "seasoning the bore". I clean with dishwashing liquid and water, dry the bore with patches, and then use WD-40 inside and out. I store with the muzzle down and a patch in the muzzle to catch residual WD-40. Before loading I run a dry patch to verify that the bore is dry. At the range I've been using Lehigh Valley Lube and can shoot as many shots as as I want without cleaning, and it doesn't matter which rifle or caliber.

Back to the OP problem. Its tight loading even from the first shot and problematic afterwards: The ball and patch combo may be too tight to begin with. Smaller diameter balls may help, and they are likely a better idea than a too thin patch that won't survive the trip through the bore.

You're in Pa, and may well be hunting in below freezing temperatures, so use a patch lube that doesn't freeze or dry out. I use mink oil when hunting.

 

[WVAED]

Try some .480 balls.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/127/2[/quote]

That was exactly what i was thinking.

On Youtube there is a channel something to the effect of Black Powder Maniac Shooter. He uses .480 balls and shoots dozens and dozens of times and his rifle loads easy. You may check out a few of his videos and see how easy his loads.

 

[don hepler]

I use bore butter, on my patches, with no problem. But..the more powder, that you use, the more fowling you will have. I think 85 grs. is too much for a 11 year old kid. I'd back off to 50-60 grs., unless he is using it to hunt with. I use a wooden mallet to start the ball and a metal range rod with a brass muzzle guard, to put the ball down the barrel. You could also try a thinner patch. Even cut some out of material, like pocket drill. I think any lube that you choose, is okay, as long as you are consistent. I pre-lube patches and try to keep them greased with the same consistency.

 

[Vaino]

If you're using a .490 RB, then 2 main things could cause hard to push PRBs down the bbl. First, TC patches are usually on the thick side, so buy some fabric store pillow ticking which is right around .018 thick. If this doesn't solve the problem, I'd measure the bore....the Sante Fe, Spanish made "Hawken" had a much smaller bore than the advertised .54 cal. Could be the bore on your rifle is also undersized....Spain is on the metric system and the maker could have used metric drills/reamers for your bbl resulting in an under sized bore,

Fouling and patch lube could be minor reasons for the hard loading you describe....and normally wouldn't cause such hard loading.....Fred

 

[Tanker]

I believe my fat fingers weren't working right last night or because of getting ready for Christmas I was doing to many things at once. I wanted to say i can get half the ball to go into the barrel. Sorry about that.

 

[Tanker]

I will head to the BP shop after Christmas and pick up some smaller diameter balls and I went through my supplies and found some very thin patches from my dad's old stash. I will scrub the barrel out before I shoot. I will try the mink oil. I have some already. I will try a few different things start off with different size patches and then move to different balls with different patches. I will report back what works and what don't. It may be a few days. Opening day of flintlock is tomorrow. Thanks for all the help.

 

[JohnN]

All barrels are not created equal. I have one 62 caliber smooth bore that is .62 and one that is .615. If your rifle is actually .495 you are going to have trouble with a ball that is .490. A micrometer will tell you.

 

[StewartLeach]

One more thing to try is to get the bore really, really clean. Get a supply of one of the abrasive bore cleaning compounds, and have at with a dozen or more well saturated patches. The two I have had excellent results with are the old reliable JB compound, and lately Remington 40-X Bore Cleaner.

JB is a paste, and you have to work it into the patch well. 40-X is a grey colored lotion that disburses into a patch on its own. With either, run the patch down and up five times, flip over and repeat. Change to a new patch and continue. After ten or a dozen patches clean well with mineral spirit to remove traces of the oil-based compounds.

This treatment will remove any hard deposits that may have built and are resistant to ordinary cleaning methods. Thereafter, clean bore well with warm water & dish soap, fresh water rinse, drying well and protecting with Barricade, WD40, etc. Good idea to clean before loading first shot using 91% rubbing alcohol to remove preservative oils. Dry well.

 

[Trot]

I agree, clean the heck out of the barrel! Get some new .015 patches ,yours may actually be .018, and try a thinner lube like Balistol. You can also try 3f powder for a little less fouling. If all this fails, switch to a smaller ball.

 

[Tanker]

Will do. Thanks for the info. I haven't clean my ML with hot soapy water for awhile now. Last time I did I did it in our new white bathtub in our new house. The house smelt like rotten eggs and the bathtub had a black ring around for a while. I found it funny. My wife did not. I have gotten a little smarter now. She might not agree though.

 

[Danny Ross]

I don't know if anyone else caught this, he is saying the first part of the barrel he has no problem getting the ball started, it is only through the middle of the barrel he has had an issue, once he gets through it it loosens up. Also he said the 50cal jag he had been using get hung up through the middle part of the barrel. Maybe try running some Scotch Brite pads through it. I wonder if the rifling maybe rough through that area causing the hang up. Just a thought. DANNY

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Wow Tanker, You HAVE to clean your gun every time you use it. The residue from black powder is corrosive and will cause rust and pitting if it isn't cleaned.

If your ML has a pinned barrel, do NOT remove it to clean it. When I clean my rifle(s), I remove the lock; stick a round toothpick in the vent hole; and pour some cleaning solution or plain water down the barrel (3" deep or more in the barrel). I set that aside and let is soak while I take a toothbrush and water (or cleaning solution) to the lock. After the lock is clean and oiled, I push a wet patch down the barrel until I feel resistance from the compression.

At this point I aim the touch hole away from anything I don't want stained black and remove the toothpick while quickly pushing down the wet patch. This will shoot out about a 6-foot stream of the ugliest black junk you ever saw. I'll run 2 or 3 wet patches back through the barrel (until I get clean patches), then a dry patch or two, and finally a patch with some gun oil on it.

Mount the lock back in the rifle and call it done. That's how I've done it for the last 15-years or so. At no time did I involve a bathtub during this procedure nor did I ever attempt to do it inside the house. You should always do your cleaning outside!

Plain water will dissolve the black powder residue readily although I use a combination called MAP (made of equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, Alcohol [I like the 91% Isopropyl Alcohol], and Hydrogen Peroxide). Never use Hydrogen Peroxide by itself or it will cause rusting. Using it with the alcohol and Murphy's soap just makes it clean better.

If you don't clean your rifle every time you use it, you can get a build up of residue somewhere along the barrel. In a worst case scenario, such residue could cause a restriction in the barrel and catastrophic barrel failure.

If cleaning your rifle well doesn't get rid of that restriction you've been running into half way down the barrel, then follow White Fox's suggestions of using JB Compound. Your load should NOT become harder to seat 1/2 way down the barrel.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan