loading prb with cleaning jag

[Uncle Mike]

Hi,I have a "J.Dewey Black Powder Jag " on the package it states "Standard 10/32 B/P threads" and"With ball pusher cupped end design".Regards,Mike

 

[AeroncaTAL]

I have a brass range rod which I have a super jag on. I also put a jag on my wood ramrod...
Scott

 

[Swampman]

I have a bunch of cleaning jags of different sizes and brands. I use them to clean my guns. They work well.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

It's great to read this forum; I learn new stuff all the time! I've never had a problem with a jag pulling the load back out the barrel, but I know now that it's something to watch out for. I can see where an oversized patch could be grabbed by a jag, but I'd never thought of this before. I think I'll still keep the jag on my loading rod as it seems to make other things easier (i.e. grasping the rod, having the jag where you need it instead of lost somewhere) but I'll make sure to only use patches of correct diameter so no extra material can get caught on the jag. This is a helpful discussion! :thumbsup:

 

[bwhoffman]

yet another reason to scribe reference marks on your rod! loaded mark, empty chamber mark.
(and a dry ball mark!)

If the rod comes out any other way than free moving, a good sign there is possibly an issue.

 

[scroggwe]

About three weeks ago I was loading my .62 fowler with a patched round ball using my range rod and jag. It was my first shot of the day and the bore was clean. I pushed the ball & patch down the bore, seated it and started pulling the rod up to remove it from the barrel. I felt some resistance on the rod, so I stopped and pushed the rod back down. That's when I noticed that the ball and patch had been pulled back up the bore about 4". As soon as I reseated the ball & patch, I jerked the rod up and it broke loose from the patch. I've been shooting BP for 30 years and this was the first time I have had this happen. I will still continue to use my rangerod and jag to load, but will definately be more aware. I don't believe this would have happened with a fouled bore, though. Something to think about. Oh yeah, I normally use a short starter, but didn't this time.

 

[Zoar]

wow, that is amazing. Sounds like a really loose ball-to bore-ratio.

I would be concerned, chagrined actually, about a load that loose; one that could be so easily pulled back out with a cleaning jag. Loose like that just seems bad, to me.

Kinda' reminds me of an old girlfriend, but I won't bore you guys with that one....

I agree though, it is hard to imagine ever being able to pull a ball back out with anything less than a ball puller and alot of brute force.

 

[Swampman]

A hunting load should start pretty easy. Short starters and mallets are a modern thing.

 

[scroggwe]

wow, that is amazing. Sounds like a really loose ball-to bore-ratio.....

I don't know what you consider a loose ball-to bore-ratio. I was using a .610" ball with a .015" Wonder patch. I don't consider that a loose load. I have fired 3 and 4 round groups that touch each other at 50 yards using this ball/patch combo. Keep in mind, this is from a .62 smoothbore Kentucky fowler made by Bobby Christian. This happened in a clean bore. The fowler had not been fired that day. I had wiped the bore clean with a dry patch before loading this particular ball/patch, to remove any oil from the bore.

Mark, I don't worry about short starters being modern. I don't re-enact any more. I am strictly a target shooter. I gave up Civil War and Texas Revolution re-enacting 10 years ago when I became a TBG (tubby bearded guy)!

 

[PaulN/KS]

I have a couple of guns that I use the short button jags on the rods. Never had a problem with them and it helps for pulling the rod out for loading when your fingers are cold or slippery with patch lube.

 

[steelerzzz]

I have a couple of guns that I use the short button jags on the rods. Never had a problem with them and it helps for pulling the rod out for loading when your fingers are cold or slippery with patch lube.

Paul, how would the button jag help in pulling the rod out? Wouldn't the jag be in the barrel?

 

[PaulN/KS]

Sorry, guess I wasn't too clear there...I meant it is easier to pull it out of the ramrod pipes.
(been a VERY long day...)

 

[Dphar]

wow, that is amazing. Sounds like a really loose ball-to bore-ratio.

I would be concerned, chagrined actually, about a load that loose; one that could be so easily pulled back out with a cleaning jag. Loose like that just seems bad, to me.

Kinda' reminds me of an old girlfriend, but I won't bore you guys with that one....

I agree though, it is hard to imagine ever being able to pull a ball back out with anything less than a ball puller and alot of brute force.

This is silly. It not harder to pull an UNEXPANDED ball from a bore than it is to push it down. When you screw in a ball puller it may or may not expand the ball somewhat. If it does this can make it very hard to pull. Dirty bore can make it harder to pull. Clean bore it can move easily especially when being pulled by the patch.

Smoothbores don't work well with tight ball fits when patches are used. A ball size to bore size fit that loads easily in a rifle will be near impossible to load in a smoothbore.

Dan

 

[huntman58]

This has been a good debate. Both sides make very good points. Now personally I do use a jag on my ram rod. I also have to use a short starter no other way to start a ball in my Barrel. I have heard of a person pulling a ball part way back out not to the muzzle but part way. Do not know if any thing happened. I also have never seen some one shoot a ramrod but I also know it happens not often but it dose. . Being I am a hunter and shooter not an actor (would like to be but to spendy for my blood) I do not feel it is a worry for me. I short start the RB then cut patch a muzzle then ram it home and shoot. I do know I can feel my PRB going down even a very clean barrel and I would think if it pulled up in my gun you would know it if you’re watching what you’re doing but not every one dose that is why ram rods get shot or a ball gets pulled part way back up..

 

[steelerzzz]

Would it be possible to make a rod that would be beveled(but not flared) on one end to seat the ball and the cleaning jag would be on the other end ...so one rod would do both? The rod (with jag) could be sized so when mounted to gun,it is flush with the end of the muzzle. It seems that this would be the best of both worlds!

 

[Swampman]

The T/C Hawken ramrod comes that way from the factory. It really a moot point. Using the cleaning jag to load is unnecessary. Why do something that's both dangerous and unnecessary?

 

[roundball]

Using any kind of firearms has an inherent danger.
Their use requires intelligent attention and care.
If using a simple cleaning/seating jag in muzzleloaders causes anyone such a degree of "the sky is falling over-reaction" as this thread was started on, knitting or checkers should be substituted for muzzleloading immediately.
I wouldn't want anyone in the same county with me who couldn't realize they just pulled a PRB all the way back up to the muzzle...as if such a thing could even happen in the first place...no, this story was just a cover for somebody who started a PRB into the muzzle then forgot to seat it.

THINK.

 

[Swampman]

We don't have to think you're God in order to respect you.

 

[Coot]

This has been a good debate. Both sides make very good points. Now personally I do use a jag on my ram rod. I also have to use a short starter no other way to start a ball in my Barrel. I have heard of a person pulling a ball part way back out not to the muzzle but part way. Do not know if any thing happened. I also have never seen some one shoot a ramrod but I also know it happens not often but it dose. . Being I am a hunter and shooter not an actor (would like to be but to spendy for my blood) I do not feel it is a worry for me. I short start the RB then cut patch a muzzle then ram it home and shoot. I do know I can feel my PRB going down even a very clean barrel and I would think if it pulled up in my gun you would know it if you’re watching what you’re doing but not every one dose that is why ram rods get shot or a ball gets pulled part way back up..

You are correct. Everyone should be paying attention to their shooting but not everyone does. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: