Lock tumbler

[Mike in FL]

I'm on step 2 of Killer's Colonial build videos. He shows taking the lock apart as the best way to fit the plate into the machined inlet. As you know taking the lock apart necessitates removing the dock and tumbler. Try as I might I can't get the tumbler out. Jim shows how to place the lock plate on a vice and knocking the tumbler out with a punch. Not being able to accomplish that, I just left it in and proceeded with the inlet, but my problem came about when trying to out the cock screw back in. The threads of the screw will not take hold of the threads inside the square hole of the tumbler. The screw itself is good; it easily threads into another hole in the lock plate. The tumbler shows no damage to the threaded part where the screw goes. Simply put, the screw won't screw into the tumbler.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Mike

 

[acavdragoon]

Turn the screw backwards (counter clockwise) until you feel the screw skip the thread then screw it clockwise (righty tightly). Be careful not to cross thread it. It’s all in the feel.

 

[planefixer da50]

you did not use brass or copper on top of the tumbler. the hammer peened over the threads. you will need to get a tap with dia. n thread pitch to chase the opening threads to clean up the damage. take your time, some Koril to lube the tap n ease the cutting. a spot of grease on the threads when assembled, run in about half, back out a couple times for smoothness before hammer or cock is on at finish. good luck mike

 

[Mike in FL]

you did not use brass or copper on top of the tumbler. the hammer peened over the threads. you will need to get a tap with dia. n thread pitch to chase the opening threads to clean up the damage. take your time, some Koril to lube the tap n ease the cutting. a spot of grease on the threads when assembled, run in about half, back out a couple times for smoothness before hammer or cock is on at finish. good luck mike

Fixer, thank you, but would you mind telling me again? I am not mechanically minded at all. Don't know what "dia. n thread pitch" means. Sometimes I wonder how I got this old being this ignorant.

 

[acavdragoon]

He’s referring to the diameter of the screw and hole and the thread pitch of the threads that was made on the screw and hole both of which needs to match each other. I’m guessing it’s a 6-32 pitch thread on the tumbler and cock screw. Please call Kibler to verify that measurement is accurate, before chasing the threads.

 

[acavdragoon]

Also before you go too far make sure you didn’t loose the fly on the tumbler. It’s a very small piece and easy to get lost if you don’t know about it.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

In one of the build videos he mentions cleaning up the threads with a tap and I believe states what size he uses for his lock screws. Looked on his site but not yet something he is offering as a tool but again did mention that may be a future offering and item included with the kits. You can always contact them.

For heavens sakes be careful. It is all to easy to get a tap started wrong and ruin your piece. Worse yet, thread taps are brittle as glass and these small ones are super easy to break off in the item being repaired. If you have a friend that's a mechanic or machinist or know a place you can take the thing that might be best if your skill set doesn't include itty bitty thread repair.

 

[rich pierce]

On a hardened tumbler I’m surprised it got peened trying to remove the cock from the tumbler. I would file a sort of point on the cock screw.

 

[Mike in FL]

On a hardened tumbler I’m surprised it got peened trying to remove the cock from the tumbler. I would file a sort of point on the cock screw.

Rich, thanks. Yours was a response I can understand. The others keep using terms that make no sense to an idiot like myself. I wish folks could just use terms and phrases that take into consideration my pitiful lack of expertise. No idea what matching "pitch" means. Very frustrating. Do you reckon I might take the suggestions offered to the hardware store and they would know? But wait: I sure don't mean the advice is not appreciated. This site has been so very valuable to me. Don't mean to fuss or complain. I was just asking for for help to get me unstuck. Sure don't want to come across as demanding or with an unreasonable request. My thanks to all that wanted to help.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Google the terms or pick up a machinist book and learn the basic terminology. Even if you don't retain it or make use of it again at least on this one project you can go in prepared.
These days. Never ever trust the person in a hardware store to know any more than you do about anything in the given store. I've been fed many a line of bull by dudes that didn't know the item I was buying was for either professional use or so I could have one at home in my second/third tool set.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Post some close up picks of the suspect end of that tumbler. May or may not be able to see anything. I'd be remiss about altering the screw. It came of that hole, still fits the other threaded holes properly, the screw isn't the issue. If you file the end of it down then force it into a swaged screw hole it has to potential to just make things worse.

They make thread chasers that are tapered and more forgiving than taps to use.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

NEXT TIME, use a punch that is the same size as the square hole, not one that fits down inside the threaded hole.

 

[Wirehair]

Kibler sells a square brass punch specifically for removing the cock from the tumbler.

 

[Kmcmichael]

I got that punch recently and like it.

 

[Mike in FL]

Thanks everyone. Always there are answers here. Good, good people.

 

[CuNosecap]

Hey Mike. Sounds like you are new to building, may I offer some unsolicited advice? Not closely related to your present problem, but you should abandon the desire to run to the “hardware store” in relation to anything muzzle loading (almost).
The big boxes, and even Ace will have the correct thread per inch (pitch) and size, but in most cases, the screw that fits will be a Phillips head or coated in zinc plating. Neither of these will look right on your future beautiful rifle. (Zink plating can be removed with vinegar or Evaporust).
Best plan on the brief delays in building by dealing with vendors like Track of the Wolf, or better, your supplier, Kibler, in this case.
The end results will look and function better.
Best wishes for a fun build.

 

[William Schenck]

Pitch refers to the number of threads per inch.

 

[user 34300]

A beginner with limited tools and experience should not disassemble the lock. There is no reason. The chances of damaging the lock or loosing the fly are very good.

Kibler inletting is perfect or required only the tiniest tweaks. Put some sharpie marker on the spots that may be binding. Trim those and only those places. Rinse the sharpie off with carb cleaner and oil the lock.

Second, the lock finish as supplied by Kibler is good enough. It is bead blasted and mat finish. With a little use is will look fine.

 

[Mike in FL]

Scota, William and Cut nose - that's what I needed, plain talk. Thank you

 

[BadDaditood]

Never ever trust the person in a hardware store to know any more than you do about anything in the given store. I've been fed many a line of bull by dudes that didn't know the item I was buying was for either professional use or so I could have one at home in my second/third tool set.

Words to live by! However, one day I was trying to find the pitch and diameter of a musket nipple. The nice well-endowed lady at the hardware store asked if she could help- I couldn’t bring myself to say “it’s a nipple” so I showed it to her. She said “oh! A musket nipple- it’s probably metric”
Turns out she was a reenactor in New England but didn’t want to wear wool in the Southern California sun.
“True story!!”