Long Distance Cast Bullet Selection - 45 Caliber, 1:18 Twist

[WAchuck]

I am looking for some recommendations on what type of cast lead bullet to start off using in my TC Hawken that I fit up with a 32" Rice Barrel chambered in 45 caliber with a 1:18 twist. I have been shooting the Powerbelt ELR bullets out of it but would like to venture away from modern bullet technology and start casting and shooting lead bullets. I do have some experience shooting maxi balls in my 50 Traditions and TC rifles and think I want to stick with grease groove-style bullets. I have considered using "Money" bullets, however, I believe I will have to size them for my 0.451" bore (verified with pin gauges). After sizing, my understanding is that I will lose the tapered design of the Money bullet and therefore lose any benefit that may be inherent to the design which I think leaves many options still on the table.
What is your favorite long-range bullet and lead composition?
Why did you choose the grain of bullet you use?

 

[rusticbob]

Look around the internet and try and find some info from a gent called “Idaho Lewis”. Sounds like he has done all the homework for you.
Good luck

 

[nkbj]

I'd have to find out exactly what my bore diameter was,
cast 45-70 bullets from soft lead,
thoroughly fill the grease grooves with homemade lube
size the bullets .001" under bore diameter
and load using cards over the powder.
That said, 18" is a pretty tight twist. And you mite see benefit from a heavier bullet design with something like coffee filters wrapped around them. That sounds complicated but it's really a simplification. You can take a cheap second hand mold (the most common are .30 caliber) and get it machined out to a smooth sided bullet that looks like whatever you want it to look like.
Easy to experiment to figure out the thickness of your paper and specify the bullet diameter to avoid having to size them after wrapping.

My .45 caliber rifle, a reworked TC New Englander

has a .457" bore with .470" grooves and 24" twist. Bullets in the ballpark of about 400 grains work great with the 24" twist. Those shown at right are 408 grain grooved castings wrapped and to be sized to fit.
18" twist can probably give you wonderful accuracy with bullet designs providing even greater bullet to barrel contact length than would work in mine but lighter weight designs mite give you more velocity with acceptable hunting accuracy.
Just all a matter of what you want to do and how you want to go about it.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I had made a postel mold, 360-540gr hollow base, smooth sided. There are at .440 for paper patching into a .460 case.
Never thought to shoving them down the muzzle stuffer.
With only one paper turn I bet it would fit.
Where's my #9 onion.

 

[WAchuck]

Thanks for the information guys! I have watched and looked up the information that Idaholewis has posted. His shots are impressive. To be honest between his information and the twist of modern inline muzzleloaders determined the design of barrel I purchased. I've looked into the bullets he is shooting, the money bullet in 550 gr. However, I'm new to the idea of long range muzzloading and sizing of bullets but my thought was the taper on a money bullet will be lost and may actually be harder to size than a bullet with something like a creedmoor pattern. Especially if you size to .001 under as mentioned above. I never thought of machining a second hand mold into something larger, that's a great idea to save some money. Also, honestly, my only hesitation to using paper wrapped bullets is that I know absolutely nothing about them and where to start.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Have have you checked with Buffalo Arms Company? They're a big supplier in the blackpowder cartridge world. They have a huge range of molds that are pretty well thought of - I have one if their Money molds for my 1874 Sharps. Works great.

You might also post this question on the Cast Boolit forum. They've got a muzzleloader section, but that's the place for finding all sorts of esoteric info about casting and shooting conicals and whatnot at long ranges.

 

[Rifleman1776]

No hands on experience here, but I have known serious slug gun shooters. They are a different breed of shooter and very (VERY-VERY) picky/finicky about the design of the bullets. Finding the best for yer gun will be a frustrating, long and expensive journey. Good luck.

 

[French Colonial]

If you are serious about this talk to Steve Brooks

https://brooksmoulds.com/index.html
Steve custom makes bullet moulds and can and will make them to fit your gun exactly, yes they are more expensive than a Lyman or a Lee but he will know what you need to fit the bore and more importantly how long to make it to match your rifling twist.

 

[ResearchPress]

….., the money bullet in 550 gr. However, I'm new to the idea of long range muzzloading and sizing of bullets but my thought was the taper on a money bullet will be lost and may actually be harder to size than a bullet with something like a creedmoor pattern. ….. Also, honestly, my only hesitation to using paper wrapped bullets is that I know absolutely nothing about them and where to start.

You’re going to need to consider alloy along with bullet shape. The long tapered bullets will likely require a harder alloy such that the nose shape is retained as the bullet expands to the rifling on firing. Some very hard alloys (eg. 16:1 lead:tin or harder) may be used with groove diameter bullets and a breech loader, but muzzle loading bulllets will generally be softer, as they are bore diameter for loading and have to expand to the rifling. Your depth of rifling will also play a part in alloy selection. I use 30:1 lead tin with a paper patch bullet in my long range match rifles.

I have quite a few articles on my web site that may assist - Long Range Muzzle Loading

David

 

[ETipp]

Perhaps I missed it, but what is your intentions for the conical you seek? Elk? Deer? Other?

 

[nkbj]

When shooting long bullets go with a design with the longest practical bullet to barrel contact length.
The entire bullet is already at rest in the rifling and then expands to fill the grooves. Throw away most everything you already learned from black powder cartridges, throating, fit, taper, money bullets. Forget it.

 

[nkbj]

Something about like the Lyman #457121 will probably be about what you need.
The molds were actually produced in two different diameters at different times so be aware that a smaller diameter version made with .45 bore muzzleloaders in mind is floating around in the world.

Uh oh, passing thought...
Maybe it was this one, Lyman #451114 that came in two different diameters.

 

[nkbj]

The RCBS 45-500 is another that would probably work well in an 18" twist but you'd have to fill the grooves with lube and take down the diameter in a push through sizer. If the gas check base is left in place you'd need some stiff cards to prevent gas cutting. Or just have the step in the mold removed.

 

[nkbj]

Gas cutting like this can be difficult to overcome when using a stepped base bullet in a muzzleloader.
This RCBS #45-405-GC was fired from my .458 bore TC New Englander. Some heavy duty over-powder cards (dipped in melted waxy lube) can be used to form a dam somewhat like the packing around a valve stem to prevent the gas cutting. I've found the pressed paper used to make egg cartons to work well in this application. Life is simpler of course with a plain base mold.

 

[nkbj]

But I still intend to make this old NEI 425 grainer work by golly just because I can.

Will probably paper patch it and use a whole lot of powder, card wads, corn meal, hair of dog, eye of newt, whatever it takes.

 

[stikshooter]

I am looking for some recommendations on what type of cast lead bullet to start off using in my TC Hawken that I fit up with a 32" Rice Barrel chambered in 45 caliber with a 1:18 twist. I have been shooting the Powerbelt ELR bullets out of it but would like to venture away from modern bullet technology and start casting and shooting lead bullets. I do have some experience shooting maxi balls in my 50 Traditions and TC rifles and think I want to stick with grease groove-style bullets. I have considered using "Money" bullets, however, I believe I will have to size them for my 0.451" bore (verified with pin gauges). After sizing, my understanding is that I will lose the tapered design of the Money bullet and therefore lose any benefit that may be inherent to the design which I think leaves many options still on the table.
What is your favorite long-range bullet and lead composition?
Why did you choose the grain of bullet you use?

I have or had a TC Renegade with a 1-17 twist ,it liked a Baco mold 443 530E wrapped with 9 Lb onion skin
( both ) sold by
Buffalo Arms over a poly wad .060 with 80 gr OE 1 1/2 /Ed

 

[nkbj]

That's a good looking bullet!

 

[bronko220002]

My 1:18 Rice love the Accurate 44-390P, paper patched and sized to .450". Its a slip fit over a 1/8" felt wad.

 

[bronko220002]

Check my thread "Rice barreled T/C Hawken". This was with semi buckhorn sights

 

[leadhoarder]

PM Eric Krewson.

Just kidding.