Long Gone Classics

[cannonball1]

Phil, I thought GRRW barrel machine made its way from Roosevelt to Grand Junction then on to Las Vegas and finally H&H Barrel Company purchased it. Do you know?

Also I believe the Sharon Barrel Company sold their machine to Joe at Oregon Barrel Company.

 

[plmeek]

The GRRW barrel making equipment went from Roosevelt to Duchesne, Utah, then to Grand Junction and on to Las Vegas, NV. None of it ended up with H&H Barrel Company that I'm aware of.

In June of 2013, I traveled to Roosevelt, Utah to meet and interview some of the old GRRW hands. During our visit with Doc White, I asked about the disposition of the barrel manufacturing equipment. He confirmed that it was last in Las Vegas. In fact, he said he had recently been on a trip to Las Vegas and drove by the building that had housed the barrel making equipment. It had a new security fence around it with guards. He found out the equipment was then being used to make .50 caliber machine gun barrels. Some of that equipment had come full circle because it had been designed and built to make .50 caliber machine gun barrels and used for that purpose before Bill Large acquired it.

The equipment from Sharon Barrel Company may have ended up with Joe Williams at Oregon Barrel Company. I've heard that from some sources, but never tried to verify it with Joe before his death. I was able to track it to Colorado Springs through letters and notices published in the Buckskin Report, but lost track of it after that brief stop.

 

[Artificer]

I was barely allowed to graduate with my Boot Camp platoon on December 30, 1971, as I was still recovering from pneumonia. The Navy Doctor informed me I was doing better, but he thought it was best for me to spend two days in the hospital. I blurted out that I would go UA if not allowed to graduate on that day, which I didn't really mean, but he got the importance to me. Finally he said he would allow me to graduate if and only if I solemnly swore I would see a Doctor about it when I was on Boot Camp Leave, which I did.

While home on leave, I had enough money for a TC Hawken and the accessories kit, that I had wanted for some time. Grandpa helped me cast the balls in the mold and not more than about 11 days after I had come down with pneumonia, I brushed snow off the ground when it was about 10 degrees above zero, to shoot in the sitting position at a target we put up 100 yards away. First three shots went into a group no more than 1 7/8" at the widest and I was hooked!!!

Looking back, it probably wasn't the most intelligent thing to do to shoot under those conditions while still recovering from pneumonia, but it was well worth it to begin my ML journey.

Gus

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Our current dollar purchases less than it did in 1971 when the semi-custom, Golden Age Arms Company, .45 caliber, brass-mounted, Lancaster longrifle showed up unannounced in my parents dining room one day when I got home from my after high school job. I paid $330.00 for that first flintlock, and took 11 months of lay-a-way payments to pay for it.

I always wanted a GRRW .62 caliber Hawken half-stock percussion rifle, but never did purchase one. Too old, and too weak now to tote one around in the woods to hunt with. My 8.5 pound, iron-mounted, Lancaster-style, .62 caliber, Getz-barrelled, flint longrifle that I had made in 1989 was as close as I ever got to a flintlock Hawken fullstock rifle. Or so I tried to convince myself. It's amazing the lies you will believe, when you want to. It was a great rifle. It just wasn't a Hawken, no matter how hard I tried to convince myself it was.

 

[smo]

Squirrels fear me….at least they once did.

.36 cal Hopkins Allen

 

[TFoley]

This coming Saturday is a guest day at our club - we can bring along any two people to have look at what it's all about, this shooting stuff, and, of course, actually pull the trigger on whatever is there to shoot. Of course, my duo with be shooting a selection - maybe three or four - of MY rifles and a BP revolver, but because they are legally club members for the day, they can shoot anything else that another club member gives them.

Neither of them want to shoot ANYTHING modern, and by modern, I mean breech-loading. The son admits that he'd like to try the Sn*der, but he's far more interested in shooting a muzzleloader - ANY muzzleloader. In his spare time, such as it it, he is an arquebusier in the English Civil War re-enactment group - the Sealed Knot, as a Parliamentarian, and to him, the percussion cap is a modern fad.

So I aim to teach him to shoot one of them modern percussion-ignition devices, might even take a couple of videos of this shooting it, too.

 

[ML48]

This coming Saturday is a guest day at our club - we can bring along any two people to have look at what it's all about, this shooting stuff, and, of course, actually pull the trigger on whatever is there to shoot. Of course, my duo with be shooting a selection - maybe three or four - of MY rifles and a BP revolver, but because they are legally club members for the day, they can shoot anything else that another club member gives them.

Neither of them want to shoot ANYTHING modern, and by modern, I mean breech-loading. The son admits that he'd like to try the Sn*der, but he's far more interested in shooting a muzzleloader - ANY muzzleloader. In his spare time, such as it it, he is an arquebusier in the English Civil War re-enactment group - the Sealed Knot, as a Parliamentarian, and to him, the percussion cap is a modern fad.

So I aim to teach him to shoot one of them modern percussion-ignition devices, might even take a couple of videos of this shooting it, too.

Sorry...but a modern muzzleloader is loaded through the muzzle....

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Does anybody remember the Old Mowrey Gun Works out of Texas I believe? Those were nice looking rifles. I don't know how durable they were, but I think they offered them in both brass and browned steel fittings.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Even nostalgia ain't what it used to be. I can't complain a bit about how we have it today and I've been at it since the '70's like a lot of you. We have excellent suppliers now and black powder is available and cheaper than the other stuff. Folks like Chambers and Kiblers are making higher quality kits than we ever had in the old days. The only things I see that are different and really bad is that there are about twice as many people in the country with different attitudes which leads to a lot fewer places to shoot and a lot more regulations. Of course the rock pits we used to shoot in have been closed down because a bunch of redneck slobs dropped off their old stoves and refrigerators to shoot up with their AK's. Even the shooting shooting ranges have so many regulations it takes a lot of the fun out of it. I can't even blow down the barrel of my rifle after I've shot it without getting yelled at. End of Rant.

 

[JT1200R]

I have a Markwell 50 cal Hawkins I bought as a kit in the early 80s. Everybody says they are not good. I still have it and it shoots good.

 

[ML48]

I have a Markwell 50 cal Hawkins I bought as a kit in the early 80s. Everybody says they are not good. I still have it and it shoots good.

Well, that just shows you, those that told you that, weren't worth a damned as shooters

 

[springfield art]

In my memory the 1970's thru about the 1980's we're the heyday of commercial traditional muzzleloaders. Brand names like Thompson Center, Lyman, Navy Arms, Dixie Gun works and CVA we're common, but there were others. There were "factory" guns, usually represented as higher grade and/or authentic, such as Green River Rifle Works, Ozark Mountain Arms, Sharon, Green River Fordge, Art Ressel's Hawken Shop, Ithaca and a host of others.

We will likely never again see the number of offerings we did back then. If you could, which would you bring back?

You have a point. The population of guys interested in ML guns was largely Baby Boomers. As they age and pass on, the young'uns aren't so much into this stuff. Not to say it will largely go away, but you'll often see on the antique road show, a specialist will mention that there's little interest in such-and-such items anymore, it's happening with ML guns. Thanks for jogging memory about some of those good old makers; we really did have a golden age to live thru.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

I suspect that in another 75, or so, years there will be a third resurgence in the interest in sidelock muzzleloading guns. A lot of the inlines have far too many nooks and crannies where the least amount of corrosion will render the gun inoperable. I don't see them having the same kind of lifespan as a well made sidelock. I might be wrong about this, but I don't think so. On the other hand, a lot of today's sidelocks will still be kicking, if they have been taken care of.

I also suspect that at some point in the future the cost of producing black powder substitutes will outstrip the average muzzleloading consumer's willingness to pay the exorbitant price tags for them. I see BH209 currently sitting right on the precipice where its performance & lack of corrosive properties is barely being offset by its cost. This means, at least to me, that the price for real black powder should always be less than the substitute powders.

For me, if I was forced into using an inline, real black powder would be my first choice as a propellant, as I just can't see shooting at a game animal at any distance past 200 yards, scope, or no scope. I have looked closely at the data, and the performance levels for BH209 just don't live up to the advertising hype. Nor, do the costs per shot for a charge, a wad, a sabot, and a high tech bullet compared to a charge of black powder, a patch, and a ball. The closer I can get the better, because for me that is what hunting is all about. Stalking the animal, getting close, and only then shooting.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

That is one thing I really loved about living in Maine. You could easily find a place to shoot. As long as you cleaned up after yourself the landowners never had an issue. I had one spot in Brunswick, and another just off Route 1 in Woolwich. A cop pulled in one time to see what I was doing and I let him try my rifle. A couple of the local gun shops catered to the black powder shooter. You could go into Brunswick Gun Shop and they would have all the T/C rifles and accessories in stock, along with Ruger Old Army's and the Colt reproductions. I remember asking to see the Browning Mountain Rifle and they asked what caliber, brown or brass?

Kittery Trading Post was no near the size it is now, and L.L. Bean was one store open 24 hours. Today it is four buildings I think.

Great times.

 

[springfield art]

Even nostalgia ain't what it used to be. I can't complain a bit about how we have it today and I've been at it since the '70's like a lot of you. We have excellent suppliers now and black powder is available and cheaper than the other stuff. Folks like Chambers and Kiblers are making higher quality kits than we ever had in the old days. The only things I see that are different and really bad is that there are about twice as many people in the country with different attitudes which leads to a lot fewer places to shoot and a lot more regulations. Of course the rock pits we used to shoot in have been closed down because a bunch of redneck slobs dropped off their old stoves and refrigerators to shoot up with their AK's. Even the shooting shooting ranges have so many regulations it takes a lot of the fun out of it. I can't even blow down the barrel of my rifle after I've shot it without getting yelled at. End of Rant.

'Nuff said!

 

[Billy Boy]

What we need is for Hollywood to make a movie where the mountain man shoots his ramrod through the heart of the vampire, uses his powder horn as a bomb to kill of the already dead Zombies, and saves the Indian Princess's beaver. Then younger people will get interested . The simple fact is manufactures will build what there is a market for.Right now there is only a small market for our toys. So there won't be any resurgence until the market rebuilds.

The mountain man would have to be bi…,,

 

[Philip Lebow]

Haven't built a Hawken in ages. Might be nice!

 

[R.J.Bruce]

The mountain man would have to be bi…,,

Or, have a bunch of abbreviations tacked on at the end of his name.

I wonder what Charlton Heston would say? Or, Robert Redford?

You could always have Rock Hudson stopping off in St. Louis to pick up a Hawken from Sam & Jake on his way West. Where he would meet Doris Day, and fall in love with "that little yaller haired gal" And, promise to return as quickly as possible, "efter ketchin' purt neer as many beaver pelts as I kin". Shining Times!!!!

 

[Art Caputo]

Having started my muzzleloading addiction back in the 70’s with a TC Hawken, I soon yearned for a rifle with a bit more authenticity…and still within my meager means. Found a Santa Fe Hawken kit by Western Arms on sale for $125. It was actually a 53 cal requiring a .520 LRB. Still have that great shooting rifle and the Lyman mold needed to feed it.

 

[TFoley]

Sorry...but a modern muzzleloader is loaded through the muzzle....

I'm sorry if I seem a mite dim, but where, apart from the S*id*r, do I mention anything that isn't a muzzle-loader?