Upcoming Wave of Classics?

[springfield art]

Without the resurgence of some form of the many "shoots" we once enjoyed, I fear the train has left the station. In my beginning days, factory-made repos were the exception. Many used the family's old "hog rifles" (handed-down heirlooms) at more-or-less formal contests held at county fairs, parish picnics, and fund-raising events where everyone was welcome. Those old originals were used by folks who many times saw them used by their parents and grandparents. Some were very good shots - men and women.

There were local legends, too. Shooters who nearly always "brought home the bacon". It was FUN, good natured ribbing, sometimes disagreements, etc. Load off your tailgate and shoot off a sturdy picnic table. Then came more and more factory guns, strangers, and new-fangled gadgets. Bib overalls morphed into cargo shorts and Jesus sandals. What once was a pleasant thing to do while the women watched the quilt auction got "serious" - old guys and old guns still won sometimes, but it wasn't the same.

Nearly all the "old guys" from those days are long gone. Ever so often their old guns show up at estate sales, but also on the internet - both at prices few of those old-timers could have imagined. If a "wave" of low-cost high quality muzzleloaders is coming (who's to say it isn't), it will be a surprise to me....happy times, good friends....





[

You're right. The NMLRA, by the way, is always supporting the idea of maintaining the "culture" of black powder shooting. People who can spare $50/yr. for their magazine & membership are helping to support this organization in Friendship, Indiana. They're kind of like the NRA for muzzleloaders. But with around 13,000 members, not "five million", although I wonder if that's the real figure anymore. Check out their magazine, Muzzle Blasts, on the newsstand where available.

 

[smoothshooter]

I’m sorta worried that as us old guys die-off…there’s no newbies to keep it going after we’re gone. I would love to see a traditional BlackPowder Revival like there was back in the 70’s and early 80’s…those were truly Shinin Times for blackpowder.

I don’t see that ever happening. The younger crowd generally knows nothing about our colonial and frontier history except what they have been taught in schools about how the settlers and frontiersman were genocidal and racist. And some had slaves.
Not exactly the sort of things that generate interest amongst the young in the cultures, tools, methods, or weapons from those times. They never got the whole story.
Access to places to shoot gets tougher to find each year as well.

 

[Crew Chief]

Mr. Kibler is a genius; uses CNC machines & modern tech to make a product that the actual old-timers would love, if you could go back in a time machine and sell them. I keep sayin', please make a pistol at some point, Mr. K!

I would like to see a Hawken kit from Mr. Kibler.

 

[woodsnwater]

Newbie here, I'm 54 and just getting into it to try to bring some excitement back into my hunting. I promise you I wouldn't be chasing squirrels with a modern weapon. I might even try to take a tender doe with my .40 this year.

 

[springfield art]

I would like to see a Hawken kit from Mr. Kibler.

OMG! Never thought of that! E-mail Mr. Kibler!!! He'd sell so many the forest industry would complain! I'll e-mail him myself!

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I would like to see a Hawken kit from Mr. Kibler.

I don’t give those “Love” emoji’s often, but I will for this post right here…

I’d love a Hawken, or even an early Plains Rifle, from the 1820’s to maybe the early 30’s time frame.

 

[Crew Chief]

Newbie here, I'm 54 and just getting into it to try to bring some excitement back into my hunting. I promise you I wouldn't be chasing squirrels with a modern weapon. I might even try to take a tender doe with my .40 this year.

I started hunting when I was about 9 in south TX Rio Grande Valley. It was wing shooting on white-winged and mourning dove. Kids and adults alike looked forward to the season every year. That was a lot of fun and pretty basic. I progressed into duck hunting and that was fun for a while until the feds made up all these rules about point system that made it confusing. I killed my first deer with a Marlin 336 30:30 open sights. I was about 12 then. I didn't hunt deer after that because the company my dad worked for quit providing the hunting lease. I then entered the Army in 1970. One tour in Vietnam as a crew chief/door gunner on a Huey. After I got out of the Army I had no desire to hunt nor handle a weapon. I was in my junior year of college fall semester when one of my friends asked if I wanted to go deer hunting. I didn't take a deer but started enjoying the outdoors again. It was about the solitude out in the woods that appealed to me. After college I went to work for TX as a wildlife biologist for 28 years then another 15 years of private consulting. During the 28 years I shot a lot of deer and other animals for research purposes. It got to where I did not enjoy that because it was not fair chase. Using high powered rifles was not really a challenge at the range I was shooting. During the early years with the state, I owned a CVA Hawken style .45 cal which I never could get it to shoot decent. I saved my coins and bought a TC Hawken kit and built that. That was enjoyable. I got so busy with a career that I sold the TC and didn't get interested again until about 3 years ago when I bought a used Lyman GPs in .50 cal. A little bit of tweaking the load and it shot well. Now it is a sickness. I own 2 Lyman GPs one is a flintlock. I also own a TC Renegade and a Traditions Scout that I bought for my wife to try out hoping she would take an interest in her retirement. Add to that my recent .54 caliber Hawken built by John Bergmann and now working on a Kibler SMR. My point is that slowing down is a good thing. Shooting black powder anything including cartridge makes you think and the hunting is a bonus. I am not into competing. I have my own range so get to shoot when I want to. By the way, I am 72. My biggest challenge is the out of focus rear sight.

I don't know if anyone has done a survey to see what the average age of our members is. I have a feeling Woodsnwater, that you are about average. Just my guess. When we are young and raising a family, it is hard to justify spending money on adult toys when food needs to be put on the table. Now that the kids are gone and we are retired, my wife and I have a few discretionary funds. Unfortunately the current federal administration is trying hard to reduce those funds. Nuff said.

Anyway, welcome to the sickness.

 

[woodsnwater]

Let him get that smooth bore out first!

 

[woodsnwater]

Chief, I started out like you but caught the deer hunting bug bad. I obsessed over it for too many years until I realized it wasn't THAT important. I missed the woods though, so here I go obsessing over muzzleloaders now.

 

[30coupe]

I've got two of my grandsons involved in shooting my sidelocks. I'm hoping I can interest at least some of the other five as well, though some are a bit too young. If we sit back and wait for schools or any other organizations to get them involved, the sport is doomed. It is sad that our public schools are becoming leftist indoctrination centers rather than institutions of learning. It is a profession I once loved.

 

[springfield art]

Older collectors of all sorts of military & guns are now liquidating collections; I see it all the time in the auction offerings, etc. Most don't want to leave stuff behind, might as well cash in and use the money for other stuff. It's tough, though.

I personally was only moderately interested in muzzleloaders at the time, spent lots of time and money re-enacting Rev War during the exciting Bi-Centennial. Didn't become aware of the Hawkin thing until much later. But sure had a ton of military surplus stuff when it was easily available.

 

[springfield art]

Kibler has harnessed the computer CNC tech to make a fine product with less hand work; also easier to assemble for the final buyer.

Mr. Kimber is a "freakin' genius" in a good way!!

 

[Don Steele]

Let him get that smooth bore out first!

I have been advised by Kibler that a smoothbore kit is in the works.
Have not heard anything about a pistol, nor is Jim currently planning a LH rifle kit.
Jim is responsive to customer interest and market demand so get in touch with them at: kiblerslongrifles.com and let'em know what you would like to see.
Just an aside here...I find it interesting that with all the "doom and gloom" about the end of our sport that some folks get caught up in, Jim Kibler went waaayyy out on a limb and is producing an incredible product that there's so much demand for he can't keep up.
Just sayin'.

 

[French Colonial]

I don't know if this is the right thread to mention this, but I think that there are a lot more BP shooters out there than we know of. I think this because of the numbers of new people that are checking into this BP site all the time. Some are admittedly shooters that have been in the hobby a long time and just found this site and some are complete new guys to our hobby. The gun makers are busy as they can be and all their products aren't going to members of BP sites. I think by nature most of us are loners who have stopped shooting the modern stuff and started the BP hobby to slow down in life a little, I know I did.

I agree with Mushka
I get on this forum sometimes and there is 5-6 new guys introducing themselves PER PAGE.
Yes some of them are from Australia and Europe and elsewhere but everyone who gets interested in this hobby of ours drives up demand for the products produced no matter where they are made or shipped from.

I read remarks about Pedersoli guns being too expensive, maybe so, but they sell everyone they produce, quite a few staying overseas I assume, and so does Mr. Kibler (with quite a wait for delivery on some) most staying stateside I assume.

Some one is buying all those guns, so there must be a fair amount of interest.

The fact that TC, Lyman are getting out of the business, doesn't mean there is not business to be had.

 

[Daveboone]

Kibler has harnessed the computer CNC tech to make a fine product with less hand work; also easier to assemble for the final buyer.

I love my Kibler, and hope to get a 2nd as I can gather funds....My concern...we really are a limited market, and I hope he doesnt saturate the market and run out of potential clients. Tough financial times are a killer to niche businesses.

 

[FishDFly]

I started hunting when I was about 9 in south TX Rio Grande Valley. It was wing shooting on white-winged and mourning dove. Kids and adults alike looked forward to the season every year. That was a lot of fun and pretty basic. I progressed into duck hunting and that was fun for a while until the feds made up all these rules about point system that made it confusing. I killed my first deer with a Marlin 336 30:30 open sights. I was about 12 then. I didn't hunt deer after that because the company my dad worked for quit providing the hunting lease. I then entered the Army in 1970. One tour in Vietnam as a crew chief/door gunner on a Huey. After I got out of the Army I had no desire to hunt nor handle a weapon. I was in my junior year of college fall semester when one of my friends asked if I wanted to go deer hunting. I didn't take a deer but started enjoying the outdoors again. It was about the solitude out in the woods that appealed to me. After college I went to work for TX as a wildlife biologist for 28 years then another 15 years of private consulting. During the 28 years I shot a lot of deer and other animals for research purposes. It got to where I did not enjoy that because it was not fair chase. Using high powered rifles was not really a challenge at the range I was shooting. During the early years with the state, I owned a CVA Hawken style .45 cal which I never could get it to shoot decent. I saved my coins and bought a TC Hawken kit and built that. That was enjoyable. I got so busy with a career that I sold the TC and didn't get interested again until about 3 years ago when I bought a used Lyman GPs in .50 cal. A little bit of tweaking the load and it shot well. Now it is a sickness. I own 2 Lyman GPs one is a flintlock. I also own a TC Renegade and a Traditions Scout that I bought for my wife to try out hoping she would take an interest in her retirement. Add to that my recent .54 caliber Hawken built by John Bergmann and now working on a Kibler SMR. My point is that slowing down is a good thing. Shooting black powder anything including cartridge makes you think and the hunting is a bonus. I am not into competing. I have my own range so get to shoot when I want to. By the way, I am 72. My biggest challenge is the out of focus rear sight.

I don't know if anyone has done a survey to see what the average age of our members is. I have a feeling Woodsnwater, that you are about average. Just my guess. When we are young and raising a family, it is hard to justify spending money on adult toys when food needs to be put on the table. Now that the kids are gone and we are retired, my wife and I have a few discretionary funds. Unfortunately the current federal administration is trying hard to reduce those funds. Nuff said.

Anyway, welcome to the sickness.

Move the sight forward on your rifle, it will come in to focus.

 

[springfield art]

You're right. The NMLRA, by the way, is always supporting the idea of maintaining the "culture" of black powder shooting. People who can spare $50/yr. for their magazine & membership are helping to support this organization in Friendship, Indiana. They're kind of like the NRA for muzzleloaders. But with around 13,000 members, not "five million", although I wonder if that's the real figure anymore. Check out their magazine, Muzzle Blasts, on the newsstand where available.

Yes, the annual statistical statement they are required to publish shows the number of issues sent out, etc. I've come to realize that many people can't afford to pay 50 bucks for a subscription.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

Hey Y'all, I have always loved historic guns. I also have always studied history. I can't speak for other's, and my interests are far different than most people. After checking zeros for hunting and working up loads, I enjoy shooting my muzzeloaders the most. For me, slowing everything down is the best part.